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Subject: Re: Usage of general.ctg book+CB learner by ChessMaster in SSDF testing

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 14:22:25 10/31/03

Go up one level in this thread


On October 31, 2003 at 16:56:32, Christophe Theron wrote:

>On October 31, 2003 at 16:45:09, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On October 31, 2003 at 15:30:36, Sandro Necchi wrote:
>>
>>>On October 30, 2003 at 17:58:29, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On October 30, 2003 at 17:10:25, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On October 30, 2003 at 14:32:08, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I don't understand why ChessMaster is allowed to use a Kure book (general.ctg)
>>>>>>in the SSDF testing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Last time this happened (with Gromit) it was specifically said by Alex Kure
>>>>>>that it was _not_ allowed to use the Fritz books to test anything other
>>>>>>than Fritz. So why is ChessMaster using it now? Did Kure give permission
>>>>>>(which I seriously doubt)?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>IMHO using the ChessBase learner for ChessMaster is also very questionable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>GCP
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I agree to both of your points.
>>>>>
>>>>>If Kure does not allow one of its books to be used, it is unfair to let CM9000
>>>>>use it.
>>>>>
>>>>>CM9000 is not a ChessBase product, so it is unfair to allow the engine to use
>>>>>the ChessBase book learning system.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thank you for bringing it to our attention. I'm extremely surprised that the
>>>>>SSDF guys do something that is clearly against the spirit of their list.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>    Christophe
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>CM9000 is not a chessbase product but I think that the ssdf should be allowed to
>>>>test every combination of engine, book and learning.
>>>
>>>I totally disagree. First of all they do not buy those programs but they get
>>>them for testing and this means that this is done under agreed ways...
>>
>>I agree that they should not use something they did not buy for testing
>>in a way that was not agreed.
>>
>>>
>>>I will not allows anybody to test my book without my approval.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>After all the interesting question is what is the best thing that people can buy
>>>>and if people can buy chessmaster together with Fritz book and get something
>>>>better than it is important to know it.
>>>
>>>Well, even if this is true it must be agreed with the owners of the programs
>>>which are given to SSSDF for specific testing and not for mixed testing. You
>>>should not forget that mixed testing could damage one company sells, so this
>>>should be allowed by them.
>>
>>I understand your opinion but I think that at least people who payed for
>>something should be allowed to test it in the way that they like and they only
>>need to give correct information.
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>SSDF have not enough time to test every combination and this is the reason that
>>>>they should prefer the programmer choice in case that he suggests something(I
>>>>guess that in this case Johan suggested nothing so they are free to test it in
>>>>the way that they want to do it)
>>>
>>>No, see above.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>I think that book makers should not be allowed to forbid people to test their
>>>>book with another program.
>>>
>>>Why shall I?
>>>
>>>>
>>>>They earn enough from not allowing other people to use their book in world
>>>>championship or from the fact that people know that the ssdf leader used their
>>>>book.
>>>
>>>How do you know I or other people making openings book get enough money?
>>
>>I admit that I do not know how much money you and other people who make opening
>>book get.
>>
>>I still think that at least people who pay for programs should be allowed to
>>publish results of every combination that they payed for.
>>
>>Uri
>
>
>
>What you do in your basement is your problem.
>
>What the SSDF tests is another issue!
>
>Their results get public exposition. It is supposed to reflect the strength the
>the individual computer chess products. It has always been the case.
>
>It is not supposed to reflect the strength of MIXED products.
>
>Like it or not, the CM9000 result, even if it is clearly mentionned the use of a
>different opening book and different book learning system, will remain "the
>CM9000 result" in people's mind.
>
>In the public's mind, there will be a line with "CM9000" on it, and for them
>that will reflect the strength of CM9000.
>
>But it will be misleading. It will reflect the strength of a totally different
>product including parts from a competitor company.
>
>
>
>    Christophe

I can agree to ask the ssdf not to have line with the name CM9000


They can have a line with the name generalmaster and it can be explained in some
note that generalmaster means the book general.ctg of chessbase and CM9000.

Uri



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