Author: Sandro Necchi
Date: 14:33:12 10/31/03
Go up one level in this thread
On October 31, 2003 at 16:45:09, Uri Blass wrote: >On October 31, 2003 at 15:30:36, Sandro Necchi wrote: > >>On October 30, 2003 at 17:58:29, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On October 30, 2003 at 17:10:25, Christophe Theron wrote: >>> >>>>On October 30, 2003 at 14:32:08, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote: >>>> >>>>>Hi, >>>>> >>>>>I don't understand why ChessMaster is allowed to use a Kure book (general.ctg) >>>>>in the SSDF testing. >>>>> >>>>>Last time this happened (with Gromit) it was specifically said by Alex Kure >>>>>that it was _not_ allowed to use the Fritz books to test anything other >>>>>than Fritz. So why is ChessMaster using it now? Did Kure give permission >>>>>(which I seriously doubt)? >>>>> >>>>>IMHO using the ChessBase learner for ChessMaster is also very questionable. >>>>> >>>>>-- >>>>>GCP >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>I agree to both of your points. >>>> >>>>If Kure does not allow one of its books to be used, it is unfair to let CM9000 >>>>use it. >>>> >>>>CM9000 is not a ChessBase product, so it is unfair to allow the engine to use >>>>the ChessBase book learning system. >>>> >>>>Thank you for bringing it to our attention. I'm extremely surprised that the >>>>SSDF guys do something that is clearly against the spirit of their list. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> Christophe >>> >>> >> >>Hi, >> >>CM9000 is not a chessbase product but I think that the ssdf should be allowed to >>>test every combination of engine, book and learning. >> >>I totally disagree. First of all they do not buy those programs but they get >>them for testing and this means that this is done under agreed ways... Hi Uri, > >I agree that they should not use something they did not buy for testing >in a way that was not agreed. Yes, other people who buy the programs can make tests making mix of programs and publish the results. The SSDF people cannot. They cannot also because this is a sort of competition for programmer teams. If they do the outcome will be a disaster for the computer chess world. One example: Suppose that Kure book is better than my why Shredder should be tested with my book rather than Kure book if others are allowed to do so? If my book is not used anymore, why should I spend time to improve it if another one will be used? There are fixed rules which cannot be broken and the only way to test CM9K is that the programmer makes available a version which allows the testing. Since he is good programmer, why he did not? If we use the same no rules in other fields, like F1 racing...why people have to invest money in making a new engine if they can get the Ferrari one? I understand people want CM9K to be tested and we want this too, but to do it doing things which were not allowed to other people will create more damage than the opposite. I understand a lot of people DO NOT CARE AT ALL about true competition in this field, but this is something that has contributed a lot to the strenght grow of the chess programs. The question is: is more important to test CM9K at any cost or to keep this true competition alive? This is not a matter of opinions, it is a fact! > >> >>I will not allows anybody to test my book without my approval. >> >> >>> >>>After all the interesting question is what is the best thing that people can buy >>>and if people can buy chessmaster together with Fritz book and get something >>>better than it is important to know it. >> >>Well, even if this is true it must be agreed with the owners of the programs >>which are given to SSSDF for specific testing and not for mixed testing. You >>should not forget that mixed testing could damage one company sells, so this >>should be allowed by them. > >I understand your opinion but I think that at least people who payed for >something should be allowed to test it in the way that they like and they only >need to give correct information. Yes, they can, but not SSDF as if they do than we will have to change the rules and I am not sure everybody (programmer teams) will agree on this. > >> >>> >>>SSDF have not enough time to test every combination and this is the reason that >>>they should prefer the programmer choice in case that he suggests something(I >>>guess that in this case Johan suggested nothing so they are free to test it in >>>the way that they want to do it) >> >>No, see above. >> >>> >>>I think that book makers should not be allowed to forbid people to test their >>>book with another program. >> >>Why shall I? >> >>> >>>They earn enough from not allowing other people to use their book in world >>>championship or from the fact that people know that the ssdf leader used their >>>book. >> >>How do you know I or other people making openings book get enough money? > >I admit that I do not know how much money you and other people who make opening >book get. > >I still think that at least people who pay for programs should be allowed to >publish results of every combination that they payed for. OK, but not the SSDF for the reasons I stated above. > >Uri Sandro
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