Author: Sandro Necchi
Date: 03:49:46 11/01/03
Go up one level in this thread
On November 01, 2003 at 04:13:54, Mike S. wrote: >On November 01, 2003 at 03:48:29, Sandro Necchi wrote: > >>On October 31, 2003 at 20:46:18, Mike S. wrote: > >>>>>(...) >>>>>Would you call it FAIR when a major competitor of yours wouldn't be tested at >>>>>all?? > >>(...) So, what is the rating of CM9K as really is...I mean the one you get when you >>buy it? >>It will be still unknown and different opinions will be just opinions... Hi, > >This is true. As it seems now, we'll get a SSDF rating for King 3.23/SKR with >general.ctg running in the Fritz GUI. No more, no less. OK, you are missing the point. Why SSDF does not test all other programs with all available books to see the difference then? > >(As I've written before, I'd have rather have considered to generate a simple >tree for King for this purpose.) > >>Why we do not test other chess programs with different books than their book? > >Because it's not necessary. Why? I do not agree at all. The only reason that it's done with King is, that it >needs a replacement for the book the CM GUI provides (only), when used like this >in Fritz. This is done for technical reasons so to speak, not to give unfair >advantages or disadvantages. Forget advantages and disadvantages. The programmer is able to solve all these problems and I really cannot understand why other have to find a solution to this. > >>>It's a compromise, <<--- >and therefore, not perfect. > >Btw. on this occasion, do you have a comment for these results provided by a >german computerchess fan: > >http://www.miko42.de/DasDuell/duellindex.html > >excerpt: > >Index Fritz 8.0.23 - Shredder 7.04 F8 - S7.04 % Fritz % Sh. games >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >01 eigenes Buch - eigenes Buch 131,0 - 145,0 47,5 52,5 276 >12 eigenes Buch - ohne Buch 143,5 - 151,5 48,6 51,4 295 > ====== >(engl. own book vs. own book, or own book vs. NO book) > >Without book only 1,1% less! Certainly somewhat surprising. :-) > >So, what can the difference be between King with CM9000.OBK (which the opponents >most probably couldn't/didn't prepare for!), or with that old general.ctg? More >than in the comparsion Shredder without (!!) book to Shredder with your big new >S7 professional book (+1,1% only, against a similar strong opponent)? I don't >think so. A book compared to another book (both reasonable quality) can't make a >bigger difference than NO book compared to a Necchi book :-) And if you claim it >may make a bigger difference, than you'd have to explain why your book added >only 1,1% in the above match comparison. > >I'd say forget it! The difference, if any, will be statistically insignificant >with the high number of games SSDF plays. Well, to be honest I really do not care at all about opionions about books and no books and so on. At which level the games where made? I do not care about blitz and semì-blitz. Did you test also at 40/2 games? With which hardware? Do you know that changing the level and the hardware you would get different results? So, what is the value of these tests than? The target of the book is to help the program score better both against humans and computers. Humans are the main target as most people should use it to improve their skill. I think the results do show this. The opinions are not results. All other tests and opinions are garbage to me... Sorry but after 25 years I am tired to repeat always the same things...I know there is no more deaf than someone which is not willing to lesson...but really... I have nothing against you, but to see people so blind still is really unbelievable to me... > >Regards, >Michael Scheidl Regards Sandro
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