Author: Uri Blass
Date: 06:10:09 11/01/03
Go up one level in this thread
On November 01, 2003 at 06:49:46, Sandro Necchi wrote: >On November 01, 2003 at 04:13:54, Mike S. wrote: > >>On November 01, 2003 at 03:48:29, Sandro Necchi wrote: >> >>>On October 31, 2003 at 20:46:18, Mike S. wrote: >> >>>>>>(...) >>>>>>Would you call it FAIR when a major competitor of yours wouldn't be tested at >>>>>>all?? >> >>>(...) So, what is the rating of CM9K as really is...I mean the one you get when you >>>buy it? >>>It will be still unknown and different opinions will be just opinions... > >Hi, > >> >>This is true. As it seems now, we'll get a SSDF rating for King 3.23/SKR with >>general.ctg running in the Fritz GUI. No more, no less. > >OK, you are missing the point. Why SSDF does not test all other programs with >all available books to see the difference then? > >> >>(As I've written before, I'd have rather have considered to generate a simple >>tree for King for this purpose.) >> >>>Why we do not test other chess programs with different books than their book? >> >>Because it's not necessary. > >Why? I do not agree at all. > >The only reason that it's done with King is, that it >>needs a replacement for the book the CM GUI provides (only), when used like this >>in Fritz. This is done for technical reasons so to speak, not to give unfair >>advantages or disadvantages. > >Forget advantages and disadvantages. The programmer is able to solve all these >problems and I really cannot understand why other have to find a solution to >this. > >> >>>>It's a compromise, <<--- >>and therefore, not perfect. >> >>Btw. on this occasion, do you have a comment for these results provided by a >>german computerchess fan: >> >>http://www.miko42.de/DasDuell/duellindex.html >> >>excerpt: >> >>Index Fritz 8.0.23 - Shredder 7.04 F8 - S7.04 % Fritz % Sh. games >>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>01 eigenes Buch - eigenes Buch 131,0 - 145,0 47,5 52,5 276 >>12 eigenes Buch - ohne Buch 143,5 - 151,5 48,6 51,4 295 >> ====== >>(engl. own book vs. own book, or own book vs. NO book) >> >>Without book only 1,1% less! Certainly somewhat surprising. :-) >> >>So, what can the difference be between King with CM9000.OBK (which the opponents >>most probably couldn't/didn't prepare for!), or with that old general.ctg? More >>than in the comparsion Shredder without (!!) book to Shredder with your big new >>S7 professional book (+1,1% only, against a similar strong opponent)? I don't >>think so. A book compared to another book (both reasonable quality) can't make a >>bigger difference than NO book compared to a Necchi book :-) And if you claim it >>may make a bigger difference, than you'd have to explain why your book added >>only 1,1% in the above match comparison. >> >>I'd say forget it! The difference, if any, will be statistically insignificant >>with the high number of games SSDF plays. > >Well, to be honest I really do not care at all about opionions about books and >no books and so on. > >At which level the games where made? >I do not care about blitz and semì-blitz. >Did you test also at 40/2 games? With which hardware? >Do you know that changing the level and the hardware you would get different >results? >So, what is the value of these tests than? > >The target of the book is to help the program score better both against humans >and computers. Humans are the main target as most people should use it to >improve their skill. I guess that big majority of the buyers do not care if Shredder gets 98% or 99% against them. I consider comp-comp games as more important. Uri
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