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Subject: Re: Fair conditions?!

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 06:10:09 11/01/03

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On November 01, 2003 at 06:49:46, Sandro Necchi wrote:

>On November 01, 2003 at 04:13:54, Mike S. wrote:
>
>>On November 01, 2003 at 03:48:29, Sandro Necchi wrote:
>>
>>>On October 31, 2003 at 20:46:18, Mike S. wrote:
>>
>>>>>>(...)
>>>>>>Would you call it FAIR when a major competitor of yours wouldn't be tested at
>>>>>>all??
>>
>>>(...) So, what is the rating of CM9K as really is...I mean the one you get when you
>>>buy it?
>>>It will be still unknown and different opinions will be just opinions...
>
>Hi,
>
>>
>>This is true. As it seems now, we'll get a SSDF rating for King 3.23/SKR with
>>general.ctg running in the Fritz GUI. No more, no less.
>
>OK, you are missing the point. Why SSDF does not test all other programs with
>all available books to see the difference then?
>
>>
>>(As I've written before, I'd have rather have considered to generate a simple
>>tree for King for this purpose.)
>>
>>>Why we do not test other chess programs with different books than their book?
>>
>>Because it's not necessary.
>
>Why? I do not agree at all.
>
>The only reason that it's done with King is, that it
>>needs a replacement for the book the CM GUI provides (only), when used like this
>>in Fritz. This is done for technical reasons so to speak, not to give unfair
>>advantages or disadvantages.
>
>Forget advantages and disadvantages. The programmer is able to solve all these
>problems and I really cannot understand why other have to find a solution to
>this.
>
>>
>>>>It's a compromise, <<---
>>and therefore, not perfect.
>>
>>Btw. on this occasion, do you have a comment for these results provided by a
>>german computerchess fan:
>>
>>http://www.miko42.de/DasDuell/duellindex.html
>>
>>excerpt:
>>
>>Index Fritz 8.0.23 - Shredder 7.04       F8 - S7.04 % Fritz % Sh. games
>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>01 eigenes Buch - eigenes Buch         131,0 - 145,0 47,5    52,5  276
>>12 eigenes Buch - ohne Buch            143,5 - 151,5 48,6    51,4  295
>>                                                            ======
>>(engl. own book vs. own book, or own book vs. NO book)
>>
>>Without book only 1,1% less! Certainly somewhat surprising. :-)
>>
>>So, what can the difference be between King with CM9000.OBK (which the opponents
>>most probably couldn't/didn't prepare for!), or with that old general.ctg? More
>>than in the comparsion Shredder without (!!) book to Shredder with your big new
>>S7 professional book (+1,1% only, against a similar strong opponent)? I don't
>>think so. A book compared to another book (both reasonable quality) can't make a
>>bigger difference than NO book compared to a Necchi book :-) And if you claim it
>>may make a bigger difference, than you'd have to explain why your book added
>>only 1,1% in the above match comparison.
>>
>>I'd say forget it! The difference, if any, will be statistically insignificant
>>with the high number of games SSDF plays.
>
>Well, to be honest I really do not care at all about opionions about books and
>no books and so on.
>
>At which level the games where made?
>I do not care about blitz and semì-blitz.
>Did you test also at 40/2 games? With which hardware?
>Do you know that changing the level and the hardware you would get different
>results?
>So, what is the value of these tests than?
>
>The target of the book is to help the program score better both against humans
>and computers. Humans are the main target as most people should use it to
>improve their skill.

I guess that big majority of the buyers do not care if Shredder gets 98% or 99%
against them.

I consider comp-comp games as more important.

Uri



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