Author: Sandro Necchi
Date: 06:38:15 11/01/03
Go up one level in this thread
On November 01, 2003 at 08:35:04, Mike S. wrote: >On November 01, 2003 at 06:49:46, Sandro Necchi wrote: > >>On November 01, 2003 at 04:13:54, Mike S. wrote: >> >>>(...) >>>http://www.miko42.de/DasDuell/duellindex.html >>>excerpt: >>>Index Fritz 8.0.23 - Shredder 7.04 F8 - S7.04 % Fritz % Sh. games >>>----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>01 eigenes Buch - eigenes Buch 131,0 - 145,0 47,5 52,5 276 >>>12 eigenes Buch - ohne Buch 143,5 - 151,5 48,6 51,4 295 >>>(engl. own book vs. own book, or own book vs. NO book) >>>Without book only 1,1% less! Certainly somewhat surprising. :-) >>>(...) > >>At which level the games where made? >>I do not care about blitz and semì-blitz. >>Did you test also at 40/2 games? With which hardware? > >I didn't make these tests. These have been run by a different person "Michael42" >(webmaster of the URL above), a german fan. Hi, > >According to his doc, the games were run on AMD 2200+ at 35m+4s, and on ADM >2700´+ at 30m+3s, and with 256 MB hash. > >>(...) I have nothing against you, but to see people so blind still is really >>unbelievable to me... > >Excuse me, I was just quoting a result which I thought was very surprising (for >me too!). I took it as a clear hint that opening books really are overrated in >computerchess competition (which is the relation between this and the discussion >about replacing CM9000.OBK with general.ctg). For me it would be the same even if they use the worst book. It would be the same even if CM9K gets -300 points than Shredder. Of course this is true for any program, is it so difficult to understand rules? It is just a matter of rules which should be equal for both. Why should I spend time to improve my book to try to get more than +50 Elo improvements for the next Shredder? I better get fun. Where is the need of having a better book if we can ask to get the book we want for the next testing? After all if we do not have the book SSDF should find a solution or not? Do you get my point? I prefer to see CM9K ahead of us as it is (the original chess engine, maybe with modified setting as suggested by the programmer, with the original book and it's own GUY) rather than see it in the list with a mix of something that does not belong to it. This is how it should be regardless who is first... > >To be honest, I doubt that general.ctg is any advantage at all compared to >CM9000.OBK, because it's a relatively old Fritz book, which means the >competitors have most probably taken a very close look at it when compiling >their latest books (and I guess nobody cared to prepare for the CM9000 book >and/or it wasn't even released yet). Which would mean, it's more likely to be a >disadvantage compared to CM's own book. > >(No, I don't forget about advantages and disadvantages :-)) because when we >forget that, what are we discussing about then?) > >So what it happening? The King 3.23 is tested *very late* after it's release >many month ago (meanwhile, some other new and improved versions of other engines >have been released), and with an *old book* which even cannot include >king-specific editing. > >But still: > >Anger, Despair, Panic!! :-))) No, only honest and equal rules to everybody...do I ask to much? My favored team is Milan International, I do not think we can ask Juventus to lend one of their players to us because we have a problem... > >Astonishing, how dangerous an opponent The King is considered obviously, even >under these conditions... No, the King will not get the first place, but this is not the problem...every program /programmer team should be treated equally...is this so difficult to understand? > >Btw. I'm of course aware of the great value your work has, like the work of all >the other chess programmers and book editors. One out of only two big opening >books I keep on my harddisk, is one of yours. Well, for me it is a hobby and something to get fun with...if you want, a challenge and a competition...if the rules are not clear and the same for everybody I am not willing to compete anymore... Is the message clear? > >Regards, >Mike Scheidl Sandro
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