Author: Mark Rawlings
Date: 10:37:17 11/11/98
Go up one level in this thread
On November 11, 1998 at 12:50:06, Steven Schwartz wrote: >On November 11, 1998 at 12:40:37, Don Dailey wrote: > >>On November 10, 1998 at 14:50:07, Reynolds Takata wrote: >> >>>Is I.M. Kaufman, and the recent CCC poll on Comp strength the definitive word on >>>whether comps are GM strength? I was just wondering because it AMAZES me that >>>after so much debate on the subject that an International Chess Master states in >>>"Computer Chess Web Reports" that he believes that a program "Mchess 8.1" would >>>be able to acquire the 3 grandmaster norms in 40/2 tournaments to acquire the GM >>>title, and that almost no one in the group commented on it. It's stunning this >>>silence, especially since most CCC members will probably expect other programs >>>(i.e. Rebel10, Fritz, Hiarcs etc.) to be stronger than Mchess. Of course I know >>>it's not definitive but does this mean that the tide is turning hard against the >>>ney sayers? Yes i know you might be able to find some other titled players to >>>counter, though I don't know if they know as much about comp chess as Kaufman. >>>Also every time i have asked titled players (5 players) on ICC if Comps could >>>get the norms at 40/2 they all said yes. Though some didn't think comps could >>>stand up to a lot of GM's in a match but they thought a tournament situation was >>>different. Though after watching R10 draw anand in a 40/2 game i'm not certain >>>even of that. >>> >>>Reynolds Takata >>>USCF Life Master >>>Fide Master >>> >>> >>> >>>"The last time I checked, the indicated adjustment to convert to USCF >>>ratings was 180, which would give it a predicted USCF rating of 2696. Even a >>>tiny gain would bring the new version over >>>2700, the same level as the top four or five American grandmasters. This is at >>>standard tournament speed (40/2); at fast >>>chess the programs are stronger still. Although I suspect that the method used >>>to get the Swedish ratings tends to exaggerate >>>the ratings of the top programs a bit for several reasons, >>> >>>I do believe that MChess Pro 8.0 would be able to earn the >>>Grandmaster title if given a reasonable number of opportunities to play in GM >>>norm tournaments. >>> >>> >>>In fact, an earlier version >>>(5.0) defeated three Grandmasters in a single six round event (Aegon) at >>>standard time controls. At fast chess, it is a terror;" (Kaufman Nov, 1998) >> >>Is Larry Kaufman the definitive word on whether computers are >>Grandmaster strength yet? YES, almost. You don't know this guy >>the way I do. Although everyone is fallible, I would have a hard >>time pointing to a more reliable source than this to answer this >>question. Larry knows computer chess like the back of his hand. >>He knows the problems and weaknesses but he also is a strong >>player although he is not a Grandmaster. His opinion on this will >>be better than almost any grandmaster opinion. Why do I make this >>ludicrous statement? Because it doesn't have as much to do with >>strength as it does to objectivity and rational thinking. Larry >>is king in this regard and knows ALL the facts and is not prone >>to making hasty or biased judgements. I don't think he has a >>biased bone in his body! He is simply a clear rational thinker >>and is ultimately qualified to evaluate chess programs. >> >>So if Larry said this, I wouldn't bet against it, unless you just >>want to throw your money away, in which case you can just send it >>to me and save yourself the hassle! >>- Don > >I have known Larry for over 15 years, and Don, you are >right on the button! Well said. >- Steve (ICD/Your Move) I remember the days when Larry used to man a toll free line at Fidelity and you could call and ask him computer chess related questions! Mark
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