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Subject: Re: Is I.M. Kaufman the Definitive word???

Author: Mark Rawlings

Date: 10:37:17 11/11/98

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On November 11, 1998 at 12:50:06, Steven Schwartz wrote:

>On November 11, 1998 at 12:40:37, Don Dailey wrote:
>
>>On November 10, 1998 at 14:50:07, Reynolds Takata wrote:
>>
>>>Is I.M. Kaufman, and the recent CCC poll on Comp strength the definitive word on
>>>whether comps are GM strength?  I was just wondering because it AMAZES me that
>>>after so much debate on the subject that an International Chess Master states in
>>>"Computer Chess Web Reports" that he believes that a program "Mchess 8.1" would
>>>be able to acquire the 3 grandmaster norms in 40/2 tournaments to acquire the GM
>>>title, and that almost no one in the group commented on it.  It's stunning this
>>>silence, especially since most CCC members will probably expect other programs
>>>(i.e. Rebel10, Fritz, Hiarcs etc.) to be stronger than Mchess.  Of course I know
>>>it's not definitive but does this mean that the tide is turning hard against the
>>>ney sayers?  Yes i know you might be able to find some other titled players to
>>>counter, though I don't know if they know as much about comp chess as Kaufman.
>>>Also every time i have asked titled players (5 players) on ICC if Comps could
>>>get the norms at 40/2 they all said yes.  Though some didn't think comps could
>>>stand up to a lot of GM's in a match but they thought a tournament situation was
>>>different.  Though after watching R10 draw anand in a 40/2 game i'm not certain
>>>even of that.
>>>
>>>Reynolds Takata
>>>USCF Life Master
>>>Fide Master
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"The last time I checked, the indicated adjustment to convert to USCF
>>>ratings was 180, which would give it a predicted USCF rating of 2696. Even a
>>>tiny gain would bring the new version over
>>>2700, the same level as the top four or five American grandmasters. This is at
>>>standard tournament speed (40/2); at fast
>>>chess the programs are stronger still. Although I suspect that the method used
>>>to get the Swedish ratings tends to exaggerate
>>>the ratings of the top programs a bit for several reasons,
>>>
>>>I do believe that MChess Pro 8.0 would be able to earn the
>>>Grandmaster title if given a reasonable number of opportunities to play in GM
>>>norm tournaments.
>>>
>>>
>>>In fact, an earlier version
>>>(5.0) defeated three Grandmasters in a single six round event (Aegon) at
>>>standard time controls. At fast chess, it is a terror;" (Kaufman Nov, 1998)
>>
>>Is Larry Kaufman the definitive word on whether computers are
>>Grandmaster strength yet?  YES, almost.  You don't know this guy
>>the way I do.  Although everyone is fallible, I would have a hard
>>time pointing to a more reliable source than this to answer this
>>question.  Larry knows computer chess like the back of his hand.
>>He knows the problems and weaknesses but he also is a strong
>>player although he is not a Grandmaster.  His opinion on this will
>>be better than almost any grandmaster opinion.  Why do I make this
>>ludicrous statement?  Because it doesn't have as much to do with
>>strength as it does to objectivity and rational thinking.  Larry
>>is king in this regard and knows ALL the facts and is not prone
>>to making hasty or biased judgements.  I don't think he has a
>>biased bone in his body!  He is simply a clear rational thinker
>>and is ultimately qualified to evaluate chess programs.
>>
>>So if Larry said this, I wouldn't bet against it, unless you just
>>want to throw your money away, in which case you can just send it
>>to me and save yourself the hassle!
>>- Don
>
>I have known Larry for over 15 years, and Don, you are
>right on the button! Well said.
>- Steve (ICD/Your Move)

I remember the days when Larry used to man a toll free line at Fidelity and you
could call and ask him computer chess related questions!

Mark



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