Author: Vincent Lejeune
Date: 15:44:51 11/04/03
Go up one level in this thread
On November 04, 2003 at 18:05:31, John Merlino wrote: >On November 04, 2003 at 14:39:50, Dieter Buerssner wrote: > >>On November 04, 2003 at 11:06:27, leonid wrote: >> >>>Try the next position that have good branching factor and, probably, will be >>>easy to solve by selective, or by brute force search. >> >>Hmmm. I used my chess engine (Yace), which in your terminoligy, you would >>probably call selective. It still should be reliable (never announce a mate in >>x, when there is no mate in x but perhaps only a mate in x+1/2/... Of course it >>might announce mate in x, when mate in x-1/2/... is possible). I did neither get >>a good branching factor, nor an easy solution .... >> >>> 1qkrr3/Rn2q3/PRPBqQ2/nqpbqB2/NQ2Nb2/1Q2Qq2/1Q2Qq2/1K2Qq2 w - - >> >>... actually got no solution at all in 30 minutes on my P4 2.53 GHz with 100 MB >>hash and using about 50% of the CPU (another analysis, that I did not want to >>stop is running at the same time with more hash). >> >>Perhaps, it might be easy by selective search, when extending more aggressively >>(many checks in a row are possible). BTW. It took 17 seconds to finish the depth >>1 search. I guess many engines will evene need longer (but did not try any). >>Branching factor from depth 1 to 2 was indeed good (17 s, then 21 s). ply 3: >>1:02, 4: 14:20. Hardly one could consider it good ... >> >>I don't complain at all, but personally (and probably I am not the only one >>here), I find more "natural" chess positions for mate problems more interesting. >>Of course, it was my choice, to test your position anyway (I was curios). >>Especially, I would find those problems most interesting, where a mate comes >>rather surprisingly after a rather balanced score. Seeing several iterations in >>a row with rather high score from almost the beginning seems less interesting >>for normal playing engines. Sure, when we have 12 Qs on the board already, a >>rather high score may not mean much. >> >>You are probably aware, that the position cannot be reached in a chess games. >> >>My favorite mate problem (already discussed here several times) is: >> >>[d]6r1/2rp1kpp/2qQp3/p3Pp1P/1pP2P2/1P2KP2/P5R1/6R1 w - - >> >>Regards, >>Dieter > >Chessmaster 9000 had a very difficult time with this one, and with a 10-minute >search using both selective and brute force (on a P4-2.4) was unable to announce >a mate. I was able to show that there is no mate in 9, but that's it. Barton 2800+ for 4 analysis : CM9000 SKR + SS=16(<-this make a miracle here ;) ) Time Depth Score Positions Moves 0:00 1/4 0.87 4267 1.Qd4 g6 2.hxg6+ Rxg6 3.Rxg6 hxg6 4.Kf2 0:00 1/5 0.78 17312 1.Qd4 a4 2.Kf2 Qc5 3.Qxc5 Rxc5 0:00 1/6 0.81 48943 1.Qd4 a4 2.Ke2 Qc5 3.Qxc5 Rxc5 4.Kd3 0:00 1/7 0.82 134877 1.Qd4 Qb7 2.h6 g6 3.Rd2 Rd8 4.Kf2 Kg8 0:01 1/8 0.82 287268 1.Qd4 Qb7 2.h6 g6 3.Rd2 Rd8 4.Kf2 Kg8 0:01 1/8 Mate15 323640 1.Rxg7+ Rxg7 2.Rxg7+ Kxg7 3.Qe7+ Kg8 4.Qe8+ Kg7 5.h6+ Kxh6 6.Qf8+ Kh5 7.Qf7+ Kh4 8.Qxh7+ Kg3 9.Qg7+ Kh4 10.Kf2 Qc5+ 11.Kg2 Qg1+ 12.Kxg1 Rc8 13.Qg5+ Kh3 14.Qg2+ Kh4 15.Qh2# 0:01 1/9 Mate15 415581 1.Rxg7+ Rxg7 2.Rxg7+ Kxg7 3.Qe7+ Kg8 4.Qe8+ Kg7 5.h6+ Kxh6 6.Qf8+ Kh5 7.Qf7+ Kh4 8.Qxh7+ Kg3 9.Qg7+ Kh4 10.Kf2 Qc5+ 11.Kg2 Qg1+ 12.Kxg1 d6 13.Qg5+ Kh3 14.Qg2+ Kh4 15.Qh2# 0:01 1/10 Mate15 565573 1.Rxg7+ Rxg7 2.Rxg7+ Kxg7 3.Qe7+ Kg8 4.Qe8+ Kg7 5.h6+ Kxh6 6.Qf8+ Kh5 7.Qf7+ Kh4 8.Qxh7+ Kg3 9.Qg7+ Kh4 10.Kf2 Qc5+ 11.Kg2 Qg1+ 12.Kxg1 d6 13.Qg5+ Kh3 14.Qg2+ Kh4 15.Qh2# 0:02 1/11 Mate15 897358 1.Rxg7+ Rxg7 2.Rxg7+ Kxg7 3.Qe7+ Kg8 4.Qe8+ Kg7 5.h6+ Kxh6 6.Qf8+ Kh5 7.Qf7+ Kh4 8.Qxh7+ Kg3 9.Qg7+ Kh4 10.Kf2 Qc5+ 11.Kg2 Qg1+ 12.Kxg1 d6 13.Qg5+ Kh3 14.Qg2+ Kh4 15.Qh2# 0:04 1/12 Mate15 1539838 1.Rxg7+ Rxg7 2.Rxg7+ Kxg7 3.Qe7+ Kg8 4.Qe8+ Kg7 5.h6+ Kxh6 6.Qf8+ Kh5 7.Qf7+ Kh4 8.Qxh7+ Kg3 9.Qg7+ Kh4 10.Kf2 Qc5+ 11.Kg2 Qg1+ 12.Kxg1 d6 13.Qg5+ Kh3 14.Qg2+ Kh4 15.Qh2# 0:07 1/13 Mate15 2857806 1.Rxg7+ Rxg7 2.Rxg7+ Kxg7 3.Qe7+ Kg8 4.Qe8+ Kg7 5.h6+ Kxh6 6.Qf8+ Kh5 7.Qf7+ Kh4 8.Qxh7+ Kg3 9.Qg7+ Kh4 10.Kf2 Qc5+ 11.Kg2 Qg1+ 12.Kxg1 d6 13.Qg5+ Kh3 14.Qg2+ Kh4 15.Qh2# 0:11 1/14 Mate15 5072035 1.Rxg7+ Rxg7 2.Rxg7+ Kxg7 3.Qe7+ Kg8 4.Qe8+ Kg7 5.h6+ Kxh6 6.Qf8+ Kh5 7.Qf7+ Kh4 8.Qxh7+ Kg3 9.Qg7+ Kh4 10.Kf2 Qc5+ 11.Kg2 Qg1+ 12.Kxg1 d6 13.Qg5+ Kh3 14.Qg2+ Kh4 15.Qh2# 0:21 1/15 Mate15 9331724 1.Rxg7+ Rxg7 2.Rxg7+ Kxg7 3.Qe7+ Kg8 4.Qe8+ Kg7 5.h6+ Kxh6 6.Qf8+ Kh5 7.Qf7+ Kh4 8.Qxh7+ Kg3 9.Qg7+ Kh4 10.Kf2 Qc5+ 11.Kg2 Qg1+ 12.Kxg1 d6 13.Qg5+ Kh3 14.Qg2+ Kh4 15.Qh2# 0:37 1/16 Mate15 16841135 1.Rxg7+ Rxg7 2.Rxg7+ Kxg7 3.Qe7+ Kg8 4.Qe8+ Kg7 5.h6+ Kxh6 6.Qf8+ Kh5 7.Qf7+ Kh4 8.Qxh7+ Kg3 9.Qg7+ Kh4 10.Kf2 Qc5+ 11.Kg2 Qg1+ 12.Kxg1 d6 13.Qg5+ Kh3 14.Qg2+ Kh4 15.Qh2# 1:22 2/17 Mate15 37116820 1.Rxg7+ Rxg7 2.Rxg7+ Kxg7 3.Qe7+ Kg8 4.Qe8+ Kg7 5.h6+ Kxh6 6.Qf8+ Kh5 7.Qf7+ Kh4 8.Qxh7+ Kg3 9.Qg7+ Kh4 10.Kf2 Qc5+ 11.Kg2 Qg1+ 12.Kxg1 d6 13.Qg5+ Kh3 14.Qg2+ Kh4 15.Qh2# 6:18 3/18 Mate15 164689698 1.Rxg7+ Rxg7 2.Rxg7+ Kxg7 3.Qe7+ Kg8 4.Qe8+ Kg7 5.h6+ Kxh6 6.Qf8+ Kh5 7.Qf7+ Kh4 8.Qxh7+ Kg3 9.Qg7+ Kh4 10.Kf2 Qc5+ 11.Kg2 Qg1+ 12.Kxg1 d6 13.Qg5+ Kh3 14.Qg2+ Kh4 15.Qh2# Analysis by Hiarcs 9: 1.Dxc6 Txc6 ² (0.38) Profondeur: 1/3 00:00:00 1.a4 ² (0.45) Profondeur: 1/7 00:00:00 1.a4 bxa3 2.Dxa3 ± (0.75) Profondeur: 1/7 00:00:00 1.Re2 ± (1.01) Profondeur: 1/7 00:00:00 1.Re2 ± (1.01) Profondeur: 1/7 00:00:00 1.Re2 = (-0.25) Profondeur: 2/7 00:00:00 1.Re2 Dxd6 2.exd6 = (-0.25) Profondeur: 2/7 00:00:00 1.h6 = (0.10) Profondeur: 2/7 00:00:00 1.h6 g6 ± (0.71) Profondeur: 2/9 00:00:00 1.h6 g6 2.a4 Dc5+ ² (0.68) Profondeur: 3/9 00:00:00 1.h6 g6 2.a4 Dc5+ ² (0.41) Profondeur: 4/11 00:00:00 1.h6 g6 2.Td2 Dxd6 3.Txd6 ² (0.34) Profondeur: 4/11 00:00:00 1.Dd4 ² (0.39) Profondeur: 4/17 00:00:00 1.Dd4 Dc5 ² (0.46) Profondeur: 4/17 00:00:00 1.Dd4 Dc5 2.Dxc5 Txc5 3.h6 g6 ² (0.41) Profondeur: 5/17 00:00:00 7kN 1.Dd4 Tcc8 2.Re2 a4 3.Dd2 Tb8 ² (0.36) Profondeur: 6/17 00:00:00 21kN 1.h6 g6 ² (0.37) Profondeur: 6/17 00:00:00 24kN 1.h6 g6 2.Dd4 a4 ² (0.37) Profondeur: 6/17 00:00:00 25kN 1.Dd3 Tcc8 ² (0.38) Profondeur: 6/21 00:00:00 39kN 1.Dd3 Tcc8 2.Re2 a4 ² (0.38) Profondeur: 6/21 00:00:00 43kN 1.Dd3 Tcc8 2.Re2 Tcd8 ² (0.48) Profondeur: 7/21 00:00:00 69kN 1.Dd3 Tcc8 2.Tg5 Dc5+ 3.Re2 De7 4.T5g2 ² (0.39) Profondeur: 8/24 00:00:00 149kN 1.Td2 Dxd6 ² (0.40) Profondeur: 8/27 00:00:01 313kN 1.Td2 Dxd6 2.Txd6 Ta8 3.Td2 Tac8 4.Tdg2 Tg8 ² (0.42) Profondeur: 8/27 00:00:01 370kN 1.Td2 Dxd6 2.Txd6 Ta8 3.Td2 Tac8 4.Tdg2 Tg8 5.h6 g6 ² (0.45) Profondeur: 9/27 00:00:02 645kN 1.Dd4 Tcc8 ² (0.45) Profondeur: 9/27 00:00:03 807kN 1.Dd4 Dc5 2.Dxc5 Txc5 3.Td1 Re7 4.h6 g6 5.Tgd2 Td8 ² (0.46) Profondeur: 9/27 00:00:03 833kN 1.Dd4 Dc5 2.Dxc5 Txc5 3.h6 g6 4.Td1 Td8 5.Tgd2 Re7 6.Rd4 ² (0.46) Profondeur: 10/27 00:00:04 1120kN 1.Dd4 Dc5 2.Dxc5 Txc5 3.h6 g6 4.Td1 Td8 5.Tgd2 Re7 6.Td6 Tcc8 ² (0.39) Profondeur: 11/31 00:00:07 2081kN 1.Dd3 Tcc8 ² (0.40) Profondeur: 11/31 00:00:09 2524kN 1.Dd3 Dc5+ 2.Re2 d5 3.exd6 Td7 4.h6 g6 5.Td1 Tgd8 6.De3 Dxe3+ 7.Rxe3 Txd6 8.Txd6 Txd6 ² (0.46) Profondeur: 11/31 00:00:11 2976kN 1.Dd1 Tcc8 ² (0.47) Profondeur: 11/36 00:00:18 4840kN 1.Dd1 Tcc8 2.Re2 Tcd8 3.Dd4 a4 4.Tg5 ² (0.50) Profondeur: 11/36 00:00:21 5409kN 1.Dd1 Dc5+ 2.Re2 a4 3.Tg5 Ta7 4.T1g2 axb3 5.axb3 De7 6.Dc2 d6 7.Dd2 dxe5 8.fxe5 ² (0.48) Profondeur: 12/36 00:00:31 7679kN 1.Txg7+ Txg7 ² (0.48) Profondeur: 12/36 00:00:33 8229kN 1.Txg7+ Txg7 ± (0.75) Profondeur: 12/36 00:00:33 8231kN 1.Txg7+ Txg7 +- (#16) Profondeur: 12/36 00:00:33 8240kN 1.Txg7+ Txg7 2.Txg7+ Rxg7 3.De7+ Rg8 4.De8+ Rg7 5.h6+ Rxh6 6.Df8+ Rh5 7.Df7+ Rh4 8.Dxh7+ Rg3 9.Dg8+ Rh4 10.Rf2 Dc5+ 11.Rg2 +- (#15) Profondeur: 12/36 00:00:33 8315kN 1.Txg7+ Txg7 2.Txg7+ +- (#15) Profondeur: 13/36 00:00:34 8800kN 1.Txg7+ Txg7 2.Txg7+ +- (#15) Profondeur: 14/36 00:00:36 9896kN 1.Txg7+ Txg7 2.Txg7+ +- (#15) Profondeur: 15/36 00:00:41 12829kN 1.Txg7+ Txg7 2.Txg7+ +- (#15) Profondeur: 16/37 00:00:52 19128kN > >Also, MY favorite mate problem is this position (also mentioned many times >before): > >[d]4r1k1/qp1r1p2/2pb1Bp1/p6p/2PP1n1R/1P3P2/P4P2/2Q2K1R w > >Qxf4! is a Mate in 10, while the supposed solution of Rxh5 is "only" a Mate in >11. > >jm Analysis by Hiarcs 9: ... 1.Txf4 Te6 2.Tf5 Fe7 3.Fxe7 Tdxe7 4.Tf4 µ (-0.87) Profondeur: 7/23 00:00:00 134kN 1.Txf4 Te6 2.Tf5 Fe7 3.Fxe7 Tdxe7 4.Tf4 µ (-1.12) Profondeur: 8/23 00:00:01 168kN 1.Txf4 Te6 2.d5 cxd5 3.cxd5 Tc7 4.Db2 Fxf4 5.dxe6 fxe6 µ (-1.20) Profondeur: 8/23 00:00:01 311kN 1.Txf4 Te6 2.d5 cxd5 3.cxd5 Tc7 4.Db2 Fxf4 5.dxe6 fxe6 -+ (-1.45) Profondeur: 9/30 00:00:02 566kN 1.Txf4 Te6 2.d5 cxd5 3.cxd5 Tc7 4.Db2 Fxf4 5.dxe6 Da6+ -+ (-1.49) Profondeur: 9/30 00:00:04 919kN 1.Txh5 gxh5 2.Dxf4 Fxf4 3.Txh5 Te1+ 4.Rxe1 Te7+ 5.Rd1 -+ (-1.48) Profondeur: 9/30 00:00:04 1005kN 1.Txh5 gxh5 2.Dxf4 Fxf4 3.Txh5 Te1+ 4.Rxe1 Te7+ 5.Rd1 µ (-0.95) Profondeur: 9/30 00:00:04 1037kN 1.Txh5 Te1+ 2.Dxe1 Cxh5 3.De8+ Ff8 4.Txh5 gxh5 5.Dxd7 Db8 6.Fe5 Da7 7.Df5 Fg7 8.Dxh5 +- (2.37) Profondeur: 9/31 00:00:06 1578kN 1.Txh5 Te1+ 2.Dxe1 Cxh5 3.De8+ Ff8 4.Txh5 gxh5 5.Dxd7 Db8 6.Fe5 Da8 7.Dh3 Fg7 8.Fxg7 Rxg7 +- (2.43) Profondeur: 10/31 00:00:08 2045kN 1.Dxf4 Fxf4 +- (2.44) Profondeur: 10/31 00:00:30 6739kN 1.Dxf4 Fxf4 +- (2.62) Profondeur: 10/31 00:00:38 8257kN 1.Dxf4 Te1+ 2.Rg2 +- (9.13) Profondeur: 10/31 00:01:17 17828kN 1.Dxf4 Te1+ 2.Rg2 +- (9.38) Profondeur: 11/33 00:02:14 30208kN 1.Dxf4 Dxd4 2.Txh5 Te1+ 3.Rg2 Tg1+ 4.Rxg1 +- (23.37) Profondeur: 11/39 00:08:20 155765kN 1.Dxf4 Dxd4 2.Txh5 Te1+ 3.Rg2 Tg1+ 4.Rxg1 +- (23.62) Profondeur: 12/39 00:09:11 170088kN 1.Dxf4 Te1+ 2.Rxe1 +- (29.98) Profondeur: 12/39 00:10:42 198487kN 1.Txh5 Te1+ +- (29.99) Profondeur: 12/39 00:11:28 218108kN 1.Txh5 Te1+ +- (#17) Profondeur: 12/39 00:11:29 218806kN 1.Txh5 gxh5 2.Dxf4 Te1+ 3.Rxe1 Te7+ 4.Rf1 Dxd4 5.Dxd4 +- (#12) Profondeur: 12/41 00:11:53 231941kN 1.Txh5 gxh5 2.Dxf4 Te1+ 3.Rxe1 Te7+ 4.Rf1 Dxd4 5.Dxd4 +- (#12) Profondeur: 13/41 00:11:54 232649kN CM9000 SKR + SS=16 : Time Depth Score Positions Moves 0:00 1/4 -0.83 8662 1.Rxf4 Bxf4 2.Qxf4 Re6 3.Be5 Kh7 4.Qg5 0:00 1/5 -1.18 25037 1.Rxf4 Bxf4 2.Qxf4 Re6 3.Be5 Rxe5 4.Qxe5 Qxd4 5.Qxd4 Rxd4 0:00 1/6 -1.46 113314 1.Rxf4 Re6 2.Be5 Bxe5 3.dxe5 Qc5 4.Re4 Rxe5 0:00 1/6 1.64 145243 1.Rxh5 gxh5 2.Qxf4 Re1+ 3.Kxe1 Re7+ 4.Be5 Bxe5 5.dxe5 0:00 1/7 2.54 205128 1.Rxh5 gxh5 2.Qxf4 Re1+ 3.Kxe1 Re7+ 4.Be5 Bxe5 5.dxe5 Rd7 6.Qg5+ Kf8 7.Rxh5 0:02 1/8 9.48 653076 1.Rxh5 gxh5 2.Qxf4 Re1+ 3.Kxe1 Re7+ 4.Kf1 Re1+ 5.Kxe1 Bb4+ 6.Kf1 Kf8 7.Rxh5 0:03 1/8 13.60 946878 1.Qxf4 Re1+ 2.Kxe1 Bxf4 3.Rxh5 Re7+ 4.Kf1 Re1+ 5.Kxe1 Bd2+ 6.Kxd2 gxh5 7.Rxh5 Qxd4+ 8.Bxd4 Kf8 9.Rxa5 Ke7 0:05 1/9 Mate10 1658075 1.Qxf4 Re1+ 2.Kg2 Rg1+ 3.Kxg1 Qc5 4.Rxh5 gxh5 5.Qh6 Qg5+ 6.Qxg5+ Kf8 7.Qg8+ Kxg8 8.Rxh5 Bh2+ 9.Rxh2 Kf8 10.Rh8# 0:05 1/10 Mate10 1754623 1.Qxf4 Re1+ 2.Kg2 Rg1+ 3.Kxg1 Qc5 4.Rxh5 gxh5 5.Qh6 Qg5+ 6.Qxg5+ Kf8 7.Qg8+ Kxg8 8.Rxh5 Bh2+ 9.Rxh2 Kf8 10.Rh8# 0:06 1/11 Mate10 1992417 1.Qxf4 Re1+ 2.Kg2 Rg1+ 3.Kxg1 Qc5 4.Rxh5 gxh5 5.Qh6 Qg5+ 6.Qxg5+ Kf8 7.Qg8+ Kxg8 8.Rxh5 Bh2+ 9.Rxh2 Kf8 10.Rh8# 0:07 1/12 Mate10 2592463 1.Qxf4 Re1+ 2.Kg2 Rg1+ 3.Kxg1 Qc5 4.Rxh5 gxh5 5.Qh6 Qg5+ 6.Qxg5+ Kf8 7.Qg8+ Kxg8 8.Rxh5 Bh2+ 9.Rxh2 Kf8 10.Rh8# 0:10 1/13 Mate10 3847021 1.Qxf4 Re1+ 2.Kg2 Rg1+ 3.Kxg1 Qc5 4.Rxh5 gxh5 5.Qh6 Qg5+ 6.Qxg5+ Kf8 7.Qg8+ Kxg8 8.Rxh5 Bh2+ 9.Rxh2 Kf8 10.Rh8# 0:16 1/14 Mate10 6525932 1.Qxf4 Re1+ 2.Kg2 Rg1+ 3.Kxg1 Qc5 4.Rxh5 gxh5 5.Qh6 Qg5+ 6.Qxg5+ Kf8 7.Qg8+ Kxg8 8.Rxh5 Bh2+ 9.Rxh2 Kf8 10.Rh8# 0:28 1/15 Mate10 12093622 1.Qxf4 Re1+ 2.Kg2 Rg1+ 3.Kxg1 Qc5 4.Rxh5 gxh5 5.Qh6 Qg5+ 6.Qxg5+ Kf8 7.Qg8+ Kxg8 8.Rxh5 Bh2+ 9.Rxh2 Kf8 10.Rh8#
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