Author: Christophe Theron
Date: 21:53:37 11/05/03
Go up one level in this thread
On November 05, 2003 at 13:09:57, Ed Schröder wrote:
>On November 05, 2003 at 11:54:49, Christophe Theron wrote:
>
>>On November 04, 2003 at 21:33:27, Mike Byrne wrote:
>>
>>>On November 04, 2003 at 13:51:42, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>
>>>>On November 03, 2003 at 23:38:18, Jeremiah Penery wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On November 03, 2003 at 21:05:26, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On November 03, 2003 at 14:57:34, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On November 03, 2003 at 13:40:05, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On November 03, 2003 at 13:22:35, Mike Byrne wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On November 03, 2003 at 09:26:22, Mridul Muralidharan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Recently I came to know that Vincent Diepeveen has been banned from CCC
>>>>>>>>>>without explaination.
>>>>>>>>>>Especially before , during and after an important event like world champs !
>>>>>>>>>>Is this true ? and if yes , why ?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Regards
>>>>>>>>>>Mridul
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Vincent has a one month suspension. He was told why he was suspended via email.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On Noverber 30th , he will be able to post again - for those that want to mark
>>>>>>>>>their calendar.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Membership to CCC is a privilige not a right. If you break the rules, your
>>>>>>>>>privilige might be taken away. Also, an FYI, the CCC moderators have an
>>>>>>>>>agreement that we do not take any action on suspensions/bannings unless all of
>>>>>>>>>us are in agreement. So any time there is any action, you should know the vote
>>>>>>>>>was 3-0. So some times we may appear to be slow in taking action, but on the
>>>>>>>>>other hand when we do take action - it's unaminous. That protects memebers
>>>>>>>>>somewhat against kneejerk reactions to posts.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Michael Byrne
>>>>>>>>>Moderator
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Well done, but why has this been done behind the curtains?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Christophe
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>How else would you do it? Do you want the moderators to discuss
>>>>>>>Vincent, his postings, their opinions, _all_ in public? That would
>>>>>>>not be a good way to operate. We vote on the moderators, and then we
>>>>>>>let them moderate. If we don't like the way they do their job, we vote
>>>>>>>for someone else next time...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>That's certainly not the way democracy works. As CCC is supposed to work like a
>>>>>>democracy, things like that should be done in the open.
>>>>>
>>>>>We elect moderators - representatives, if you will - to carry out what they
>>>>>think is in the best interest of the people they represent (those who elect
>>>>>them). If it were supposed to act like a democracy, then why have moderators at
>>>>>all? We should be voting on everything the moderators do.
>>>>>
>>>>>Nothing would ever get accomplished in such a system, which is why we do not use
>>>>>that system. CCC can best be called a representative government, in which it
>>>>>is not required for the government officials (moderators) to explain their every
>>>>>action to the people. If we don't like how they act, we elect new people when
>>>>>the term is up.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Are you living is a democracy or not?
>>>>
>>>>We elect representatives, and they are accountable for what they do, so we can
>>>>decide to re-elect them or not.
>>>>
>>>>That's why in a democracy the decisions taken by the people's representatives
>>>>are made public.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Christophe
>>>
>>>Christophe, I believe you mis-using the word democracy as we undestand it here
>>>is the United States. A democracy is where every decision is put to vote by the
>>>masses. That form of government is found to highly inefficient. The United
>>>Sates is often called a democracy, but technically it is a republic state. We
>>>elect our representatives to make our decisions for us. The CCC is also a form
>>>of a republic. The moderators were elected to make the decisions for the
>>>benefit of all members.
>>>
>>>I can go either way on public notice of bannings- but I would want to be sure
>>>that is what the majority of the CCC members would want before instituting such
>>>a policy. I viewed a banning as a discipline issue that is usually held to be
>>>confidential in the Unites States - perhaps other cultures view it differently.
>>
>>
>>
>>I don't want to quibble on the words.
>>
>>I have made my point clear I think. Such a "Justice Decision" should be
>>announced in public, i.e. posted directly on CCC.
>>
>>
>>
>> Christophe
>
>
>Hi Christophe,
>
>There are pro's and contra's, the pro's you already highlighted in your usual
>superb way. The contra's as far as I see them:
>
>1) It's an extra punishment for the banned poster in question;
No, because I consider that it's part of the punishment.
>2) It (everytime) will create a big (off-topic) thread;
And the remedy is what? To hide the decision?
That's simply worse. Hiding a fact to avoid the problem? You might call it
"diplomacy", I call this "hypochrisis".
>3) In this big thread the banned poster can't defend himself;
It takes such a hard nasty work and bad will and a number of warnings to finally
get banned that frankly I don't care about the guy in question.
>4) It will put extra pressure on the mods as naturally there will be criticism.
The moderators can just avoid to participate in the discussion. They have been
elected to take decisions. They can justify themselves if they want, but
ultimately if they do not see any good argument, they can just ignore the
thread.
>I am not sure if the democratic benefits outweigh the disadvantages, so to say
>:)
It should be tried.
Such a decision happen so rarely that it will not take much bandwidth anyway.
Look: a whole thread has emerged from the decision already. Would it be worse if
the thread had emerged from an official announcement rather from an accidental
post?
Christophe
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