Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 15:38:14 11/11/98
Go up one level in this thread
On November 11, 1998 at 17:37:30, Don Dailey wrote: >On November 11, 1998 at 17:00:06, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On November 11, 1998 at 16:35:35, Don Dailey wrote: >> >>>On November 11, 1998 at 14:31:09, Ed Schröder wrote: >>> >>>>>>IMO you simply give a guy like Garry Kasparov a re-match out of >>>>>>respect. He asked for it so you give it to him. Shame on IBM! Note that's >>>>>>some different than shame on Deep Blue. They did a fantastic job. >>>> >>>>>>- Ed - >>>> >>>> >>>>>you really blew that response badly... based on one word: "respect". >>>>>Why would IBM have any "respect" for Kasparov now? He called them >>>>>cheaters at a press conference... Personally, my "respect" for Kasparov is >>>>>down to zero, and still falling. I'd certainly consider Karpov, whom I have a >>>>>*bunch* of respect for however... >>>> >>>>Sure Kasparov has a temper. He did badly. But that's not the point. I am >>>>pointing at IBM one of the biggest companies on earth. >>>> >>>>They made the match a fantastic spectacle. Even now we are still talking >>>>about the match all matches. They won and this shocked the chess world. >>>> >>>>It's against all chess etiquette not to honor the request of Kasparov for a >>>>revenge match. I find this quite a humiliating treatment for the current >>>>best chess player on earth. >>>> >>>>If Vishy Anand asks me for a re-match I say YES no matter if I am in >>>>the mood for it or not. I say YES and I will make sure it will happen. >>>>That is simply the price you have to pay when you have won. It's >>>>an obligation based on chess etiquette. >>>> >>>>If you play against such giants then take the etiquette into account. >>>>Anything else is showing no respect. In this light shame on IBM >>>>lacking respect to world's best chess player and therefore also >>>>a slap in the face to the whole chess community. IMO. >>>> >>>>About temper... Kasparov lost, Anand lost. Both by surprise. It wasn't >>>>expected. We all have seen the face of Kasparov on television when >>>>he lost. I have seen Anand's. It's their worst nightmare losing from a >>>>computer. >>>> >>>>So let them steam off. It means nothing! IBM knows. I know. It's no >>>>big deal. It's no excuse for IBM not to play again. >>>> >>>>- Ed - >>> >>>I have to second this comment. Respect is a funny word and does >>>not necessarily mean "admiration." Being the best player in the >>>world deserves respect. To me, respect is an acknowledgement of >>>something. It might be as simply as nodding to a stranger as he >>>passed by when he nods to you instead of ignoring him. But in >>>this case it comes across as brash and tactless to essentially >>>thumb your nose at him because you finally managed to barely >>>beat him a SINGLE time. >>> >>> >>>- Don >> >> >>I can't speak for IBM. But if that had been Cray Blitz, and we had won, >>I would not "thumb my nose because I barely managed to win." I would >>"thumb my nose because he accused me of being dishonest." That's about as >>bad an insult as can be levied against someone in a scientific endeavor... >> >>And it's a line you don't cross over without something of substance to >>back you up. And of course, this by the same player that picked up a piece, >>moved it, then when nobody looked picked it back up and put it on a *different* >>square... and denied it... and then was horrified to find that it was caught on >>a video camera... >> >>Nice fella, that Kasparov... > > >Hi Bob, > >I guess if you've read my previous post by now, you will realize that >I don't think it should be about Kasparov or his ugly personality but >should be about historical perspective. As difficult as it may be, >this should be forgiven him out of respect and ettiquette and the >bigger picture should be studied. > >I know this is a tender subject and I don't pretend it is as simple >as I put it. But I think you will find that this point of view is >shared by a majority, it occured to me and I discovered that almost >every one I talked to was thinking the same thing. > >But before we go further, is it the case that a rematch is out of >the question? Maybe we argue about nothing? > >- Don Let me give you a short history lesson on the topic of "respect." A few years ago, Hans Berliner blasted former world champion Botvinnik in the ICCA for a paper that Botvinnik wrote there. You probably remember the issue, where he claimed to have solved certain problem positions and gave analysis. Hans went over it and was convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was wrong. He wrote a scathing letter to the ICCA. He pointed out the flaws in a very "negative" way, and accused Botvinnik of outright fabricating the results. I didn't disagree with his conclusions, because Hans was quite careful to show exactly where and why the analysis supposedly from "sapiens" was impossible. But he did it in a way that just tore Botvinnik's character up one side and down the other. And I took issue with him in public for this same reason. I thought that someone that had once been the world champion, and who had written a couple of books, should be accorded a certain level of respect. I took a lot of heat for saying that, and maybe I was wrong... But I feel respect is earned over time and I had the chance to personally talk with Botvinnik in 1983 in new york. Here I feel the same... but respect is a two-way street... Kasparov was insulting. And Hsu and company deserved respect as they were performing at a level the rest of us only dream about. And when you refuse to show respect, you quickly lose the right to be respected... That is my personal opinion... You might disagree... and that's ok. Kasparov earned my respect many years ago as I cheered for him when he started to take on Karpov at the age of 20... his attacking style vs the boredom of another karpov endgame. :) But he lost my respect in NY. And once lost, it is *very difficult* to get it back. At least from me. Not impossible. But difficult. And nothing he's said or done since NY has led me to change my mind... Hope that clears up my perspective... He "earns" respect by his actions, and he loses it the same way...
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