Author: Bob Durrett
Date: 17:59:25 11/10/03
Go up one level in this thread
On November 10, 2003 at 15:00:53, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>According to Chessbase GM Shaposhnikov has been disqualified from the first
>European Internet championships qualifier because he supposedly used a computer
>program.
>
>I just looked at some of his games.
>He indeed played many moves suggested also by Fritz 8 after a few seconds.
>
>There is some evidence. Is it enough to disqualify a GM?
>I wonder whether they had more.
>
>[D]4rr1k/1bq1n2p/pp1ppbp1/8/2P1PPQ1/1P2B2P/P3N2K/1BR3R1 b - - 0 30
>
>In this position Shaposhnikov played 30...Nf5 in 3 seconds.
>
>[D] 4rr1k/1bq1n2p/pp1ppbp1/8/2P1PPQ1/1P2B2P/P3N2K/1BR3R1 b - - 0 30
>
>Here 21.f4 in 8 seconds.
>
>In the game against Chessbase member Rainer Knaak he played quite a few Fritz
>moves in a row...
>
>[Event "EUROPEAN CHAMPIONSHIP - CANDIDATES TOUR"]
>[Site "playchess.com"]
>[Date "2003.11.08"]
>[Round "11"]
>[White "SerS"]
>[Black "E-Shaposhnikov"]
>[Result "0-1"]
>[WhiteElo "2632"]
>[BlackElo "2798"]
>[PlyCount "80"]
>[EventDate "2003.11.08"]
>
>1. e4 {2} c5 {1} 2. Nf3 {1} e6 {1} 3. d3 {1} d5 {2} 4. Qe2 {2} g6 {3} 5. g3 {2}
>Bg7 {1} 6. Bg2 {1} Nf6 {1} 7. O-O {8} Nc6 {1} 8. c3 {12} O-O {5} 9. Re1 {10}
>Nd7 {1} 10. Bf4 {11} d4 {6} 11. e5 {6} h6 {7} 12. h4 {3} Nb6 {16} 13. c4 {3}
>Nd7 {7} 14. Nbd2 {2} Kh7 {8} 15. Nf1 {5} Qe7 {8} 16. N1h2 {2} Rb8 {9} 17. Ng4 {
>5} Re8 {5} 18. a3 {11} Qf8 {7} 19. Rab1 {6} a5 {3} 20. b3 {6} Ra8 {2} 21. Qe4 {
>6} Ne7 {16} 22. b4 {6} axb4 {2} 23. axb4 {2} Nf5 {4} 24. h5 {8} gxh5 {11} 25.
>Nf6+ {15} Bxf6 {9} 26. exf6 {1} Nxf6 {2} 27. Qe2 {9} cxb4 {9} 28. Be5 {7} Nd7 {
>5} 29. Nd2 {1} Nxe5 {9} 30. Qxe5 {1} Qg7 {1} 31. Qe4 {4} Ra2 {3} 32. Nf3 {5}
>Rg8 {3} 33. Rf1 {13} Kh8 {4} 34. Rxb4 {14} Nxg3 {9} 35. fxg3 {7} Rxg2+ {4} 36.
>Kh1 {6} Rxg3 {2} 37. Rb2 {8} Rh3+ {8} 38. Nh2 {6} f5 {4} 39. Qe2 {6} Bd7 {9}
>40. Rb6 {5} Rg3 {SerS resigns 6} 0-1
>
>and in this game he played some quite strong (computer?) moves in a complicated
>position.
>
>[Event "EUROPEAN CHAMPIONSHIP - CANDIDATES TOUR"]
>[Site "playchess.com"]
>[Date "2003.11.08"]
>[Round "11"]
>[White "SerS"]
>[Black "E-Shaposhnikov"]
>[Result "0-1"]
>[WhiteElo "2632"]
>[BlackElo "2798"]
>[PlyCount "80"]
>[EventDate "2003.11.08"]
>
>1. e4 {2} c5 {1} 2. Nf3 {1} e6 {1} 3. d3 {1} d5 {2} 4. Qe2 {2} g6 {3} 5. g3 {2}
>Bg7 {1} 6. Bg2 {1} Nf6 {1} 7. O-O {8} Nc6 {1} 8. c3 {12} O-O {5} 9. Re1 {10}
>Nd7 {1} 10. Bf4 {11} d4 {6} 11. e5 {6} h6 {7} 12. h4 {3} Nb6 {16} 13. c4 {3}
>Nd7 {7} 14. Nbd2 {2} Kh7 {8} 15. Nf1 {5} Qe7 {8} 16. N1h2 {2} Rb8 {9} 17. Ng4 {
>5} Re8 {5} 18. a3 {11} Qf8 {7} 19. Rab1 {6} a5 {3} 20. b3 {6} Ra8 {2} 21. Qe4 {
>6} Ne7 {16} 22. b4 {6} axb4 {2} 23. axb4 {2} Nf5 {4} 24. h5 {8} gxh5 {11} 25.
>Nf6+ {15} Bxf6 {9} 26. exf6 {1} Nxf6 {2} 27. Qe2 {9} cxb4 {9} 28. Be5 {7} Nd7 {
>5} 29. Nd2 {1} Nxe5 {9} 30. Qxe5 {1} Qg7 {1} 31. Qe4 {4} Ra2 {3} 32. Nf3 {5}
>Rg8 {3} 33. Rf1 {13} Kh8 {4} 34. Rxb4 {14} Nxg3 {9} 35. fxg3 {7} Rxg2+ {4} 36.
>Kh1 {6} Rxg3 {2} 37. Rb2 {8} Rh3+ {8} 38. Nh2 {6} f5 {4} 39. Qe2 {6} Bd7 {9}
>40. Rb6 {5} Rg3 {SerS resigns 6} 0-1
>
>Michael
If anybody can distinguish between the moves of Fritz and of a human GM, it
should be a team of real human GMs. One would have to have a lot of "guts" to
use Fritz in a GM tournament when the tournament rules exclude computer
assistance! [Of course, it's OK in "Advanced Chess" tournaments.]
I suspect that most if not all of the people here at CCC would be unable to
reliably distinguish between GM moves and Fritz moves. How many of us are "FIDE
certified and fully bonified" GMs? How many of us can reliably recognize the
difference between a GM move and the chess move of a lesser human?
The real question to me is: To what extent are modern chess engine moves
different from GM moves? The positions where long-range planning is required
might be one case where the difference might be evident. But I am not a GM, so
I cannot say for sure.
Bob D.
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