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Subject: Re:

Author: Amir Ban

Date: 07:24:06 11/12/98

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On November 12, 1998 at 08:18:08, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On November 12, 1998 at 03:42:58, Amir Ban wrote:
>
>>On November 11, 1998 at 19:55:02, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On November 11, 1998 at 07:09:43, Amir Ban wrote:
>>>
>>>>On November 10, 1998 at 08:16:23, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>>>>this is dead wrong.  It overlooked a draw in game two that *kasparov* also
>>>>>overlooked.  But when it played Be4 rather than Qb6, the move that Kasparov
>>>>>insisted won a pawn, it turns out that DB had seen a *very* deep draw there,
>>>>>one that Kasparov also overlooked.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Don't know where this interesting but false piece of information comes from.
>>>>Deep Blue evaluated 37.Qb6 as +32 so it didn't see a draw, if there is indeed
>>>>one to see here.
>>>>
>>>>Amir
>>>
>>>Is this not the move where it chose to go into "panic time" because the eval
>>>kept dropping iteration by iteration, and it changed to Be4 at the last minute?
>>>
>>
>>That was move 36 (axb5).
>>
>>I posted the printout information here once. It contains answers to all these
>>questions. I assume you didn't save it. Since you comment on this matter often,
>>and with an air of authority, aren't you at all interested in the only data ever
>>published on this ?
>>
>>
>>>There is definitely a draw to be found... just let Junior search... for a day or
>>>so.  You'll get 0.00 eventually.  I did...  And I assume they did as well to
>>>change to something else...
>>
>>Don't know, but if DB didn't see a draw, what does this matter ?
>>
>>I have an email from F.Friedel from May 97 saying he ran this on Fritz 4.01 to
>>ply 17 and got +0.28.
>>
>>Amir
>
>
>You keep saying that... so I'm going to respond in terms you can both understand
>*and* remember so we don't have to do this again...
>
>DB was searching Qb6...  the score kept dropping.  Until the last iteration
>where it changed to Be4.  Now how could it do that without saying anything until
>the "reconstructing..." output?  Exactly like I explained it the last time you
>brought this implied accusation up... like this:
>
>In early versions of Cray Blitz, when I started a new iteration, and the
>previous best move failed low (dropped to 0.00) I simply kept searching... and
>with no "warning" it would display and play a completely different move, because
>the fail low would put it into "extended-time mode" and it would try root move
>2, then 3 until either it tried them all and then dropped the lower bound and
>restarted the search (telling me when it did this) or it would find a new best
>move, and it might take an extended time to find this...  so all I would see
>is "time limit extended because of fail low at root" (I added this so I knew
>what was going on)...  followed by a brand new move out of the blue, when it
>finally found a move that produced a score above alpha.
>
>Now for the life of me I don't see why you keep making ths implication that
>something went wrong...  I've pointed out several times that this is not an
>unusual thing with any program.  Many of us make our output more informative
>but there is *no* mandated requirement to do so.  Their output has *always*
>been confusing to me, from the * for captures, to the long-form Be4*d5 type
>of move, etc...  But I certainly don't see how we go from there to "something
>odd happened that they *must* explain to prove it wasn't human intervention."
>

What the hell are you talking about here ?

Who's been talking about this subject at all ? You asked if this is the m



>That's baloney.  It's always been baloney.  It still is baloney.  It will always
>be baloney...
>
>It's perfectly understandable... it is only mysterious if you want it to be so.



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