Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 07:03:48 11/13/03
Go up one level in this thread
On November 13, 2003 at 01:59:30, Les Fernandez wrote: >On November 12, 2003 at 18:21:27, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On November 12, 2003 at 18:04:18, Dan Sicerly wrote: >> >>>On November 12, 2003 at 13:24:32, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On November 12, 2003 at 03:56:09, Jorge Pichard wrote: >>>> >>>>>On November 12, 2003 at 03:21:46, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On November 12, 2003 at 03:16:44, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On November 12, 2003 at 02:11:04, Derek Paquette wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I'm reading through all these posts and watched the games, and something >>>>>>>>occurred to me, especially what the CEO of chessbase said, that kasparov was >>>>>>>>sent the versions of x3d fritz as they were created...so... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>If chessbase were able to clone kasparov use him, study him, poke holes in his >>>>>>>>game, analyse him for hundreds of hours, how well would they do? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>But thats a question we'll never be able to answer, but how about this , >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>If they sent x3d version fritz with the same hardware to a large super >>>>>>>>grandmaster tournament, a round robin, where all the players not only had to >>>>>>>>prepare for the computer, but other humans, how would it fair? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I think we are seriously under estimating this beast... >>>>>>>>just my opinion of course. >>>>>>>>-Derek >>>>>>> >>>>>>>This is exactly what chessbase want you to believe. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I think that all these matches are unimportant matches and it may be better if >>>>>>>we ignore them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I do not trust the humans in these match to try to win the matches and I suspect >>>>>>>that they believe that draw can give them more money. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Uri >>>>>> >>>>>>I can add that the fact that kasparov got another match after drawing with Fritz >>>>>>when Smirin never got another match after beating the machines increase my >>>>>>impression(hardware was slower against smirin but time control was also faster >>>>>>and the second factor is something that is supposed to help the machines so I >>>>>>think that smirin's result is better than kasparov's result and kramnik's >>>>>>result). >>>>>> >>>>>>Players may believe that it is better if they do not win because if they draw >>>>>>they have better chances to get another match. >>>>>> >>>>>>Uri >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Kasparov lost to IBM Deeper Blue and still has not gotten a rematch, and I >>>>>believe that X3D Fritz with the inferior hardware is much better than Deeper >>>>>Blue :-) >>>>> >>>>>Jorge >>>> >>>>Why don't you knock off the wild speculation, and just watch. If fritz >>>>wins, it might be as good as, or better than deep blue. If it loses, it >>>>isn't. >>> >>> >>> >>> You're not just being funny are you? I have heard you say a million times >>>that the numbers that deepblue calculates makes it impossible for any micro to >>>beat it. >> >>I still believe that although the gap is closing. IE I have seen a quad-cpu >>machine run Crafty at 7M nodes per second. Not to DB's speed, but definitely >>closer than 3 years ago. >> >>But to make statements such as fritz is much better is simply ridiculous until >>Fritz manages to beat Kasparov in the match. Until it does, there is no >>evidence to support this "superiority". If Fritz doesn't win (ie it loses or >>draws) there is also no evidence to support this since DB actually _won_. > >Hi Bob, > >I am not sure much can be deduced by this match if fritz loses since I strongly >believe fatigue is a variable in man vs machine and this match is made up of >only 4 games whereas the DB was 6. To me it may be more conclusive if this was >a similar 6 game format. If I can find the results it might be interesting to >see how Kaspy has done if we look at his win/loss record of the first half of >all his games played on this level and compare it to the last half record. Do >you happen to have all the DB, Junior results? If so can you send them to me, I >would be interested in them. > >Thx Bob, My only comment is that if Fritz wins, the debate can continue. If Fritz loses, then the discussion is moot for the time being. Kasparov has, IMHO, a significant disadvantage using the 3d stuff. I have used that stuff myself and I would not want to do it for four hours. I notice he leaves the "board" frequently, which probably helps a bit. But this is a flawed idea, IMHO, as he should be playing on a real board. If Fritz still manages to lose, then comparing it to DB is difficult, since DB won 7 years ago, on hardware 7 years older than today's. If Fritz wins, then fritz and DB can be used in the same sentence with some sense. > >Les >> >>almost 7 years ago... >> >> >>>> >>>>Rather than speculating, we will _know_ next week.
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