Author: Uri Blass
Date: 14:17:02 11/14/03
Go up one level in this thread
On November 14, 2003 at 17:10:28, Uri Blass wrote:
>On November 14, 2003 at 17:00:27, Jorge Pichard wrote:
>
>>On November 14, 2003 at 15:11:38, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On November 14, 2003 at 14:24:52, Jorge Pichard wrote:
>>>
>>>>On November 14, 2003 at 14:10:11, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>The trap was suggested by a poster in the israeli chess forum.
>>>>>Kasparov could play 31...Rf6 and the question is if Fritz could avoid 32.Qxb7
>>>>>
>>>>>[Event "?"]
>>>>>[Site "?"]
>>>>>[Date "?"]
>>>>>[Round "-"]
>>>>>[White "?"]
>>>>>[Black "?"]
>>>>>[Result "*"]
>>>>>
>>>>>1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nf6 4. d3 d6 5. c3 g6 6. O-O Bg7 7. Nbd2 O-O 8.
>>>>>Re1 Re8 9. d4
>>>>>{
>>>>>White last book move
>>>>>}
>>>>>9... Bd7 10. d5 Ne7 11. Bxd7 Nxd7 12. a4 h6 13. a5 a6 14. b4 f5 15. c4 Nf6
>>>>>16. Bb2 Qd7 17. Rb1 g5 18. exf5 Qxf5 19. Nf1 Qh7 20. N3d2 Nf5 21. Ne4 Nxe4
>>>>>22. Rxe4 h5 23. Qd3 Rf8 24. Rbe1 Rf7 25. R1e2 g4 26. Qb3 Raf8 27. c5 Qg6
>>>>>28. cxd6 cxd6 29. b5 axb5 30. Qxb5 Bh6 31. Qb6 Rf6 32. Qxb7 Ne3 33. R4xe3
>>>>>Bxe3 34. Nxe3 Qd3 35. Bxe5 Qxe2 36. Bxf6 Rxf6 37. Qc8+ Kg7
>>>>>*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Note that yace does not fall into that trap and prefers 32.Qc7 but my Fritz
>>>>>likes Qxb7 inspite of seeing nagative score for that move.
>>>>>
>>>>>analysis on A1000
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>[D]5rk1/1p6/1Q1p1rqb/P2Ppn1p/4R1p1/8/1B2RPPP/5NK1 w - - 0 1
>>>>>
>>>>>Analysis by Yace Paderborn:
>>>>>
>>>>>32.Bxe5 dxe5 33.Qxb7
>>>>> µ (-0.80) Depth: 1 00:00:00
>>>>>32.Qxb7
>>>>> +- (1.47) Depth: 1 00:00:00
>>>>>32.Qxb7
>>>>> +- (1.47) Depth: 1 00:00:00
>>>>>32.Qxb7 Qf7
>>>>> ± (1.29) Depth: 2 00:00:00
>>>>>32.Qxb7 Qf7
>>>>> ± (1.29) Depth: 2 00:00:00
>>>>>32.Qxb7 R8f7 33.Qc8+ Kh7
>>>>> ± (1.40) Depth: 3 00:00:00
>>>>>32.Qxb7 R8f7 33.Qc8+ Kh7
>>>>> ± (1.40) Depth: 3 00:00:00
>>>>>32.Qxb7 R6f7 33.Qc6 Qf6
>>>>> ± (1.31) Depth: 4 00:00:00
>>>>>32.Qxb7 R6f7 33.Qc6 Qf6
>>>>> ± (1.31) Depth: 4 00:00:00
>>>>>32.Qxb7 Ng7 33.Rc4 Qd3 34.Rcc2
>>>>> ± (1.30) Depth: 5 00:00:00
>>>>>32.Qxb7 Ng7 33.Rc4 Qd3 34.Rcc2
>>>>> ± (1.30) Depth: 5 00:00:00
>>>>>32.Qxb7 R6f7 33.Qb5 Ne7 34.Ng3 Bg5
>>>>> ± (1.29) Depth: 6/15 00:00:00 69kN
>>>>>32.Qxb7 R6f7 33.Qb5 Ne7 34.Ng3 Bg5
>>>>> ± (1.29) Depth: 6/16 00:00:00 102kN
>>>>>32.Qxb7 Qf7 33.Qxf7+ R6xf7 34.Rb4 Ne7 35.Rb6 Nxd5 36.Rxd6
>>>>> ± (1.04) Depth: 7/16 00:00:01 242kN
>>>>>32.Qxb7 Qf7 33.Qxf7+ R6xf7 34.Rb4 Ne7 35.Rb6 Nxd5 36.Rxd6
>>>>> ± (1.04) Depth: 7/20 00:00:01 354kN
>>>>>32.Qxb7 Qf7 33.Qxf7+ R6xf7 34.Rb4 Ra8 35.Rb5 Bg5 36.Rc2 Raf8
>>>>> ± (1.04) Depth: 8/20 00:00:02 700kN
>>>>>32.Qxb7 Qf7 33.Qxf7+ R6xf7 34.Rb4 Ra8 35.Rb5 Bg5 36.Rc2 Raf8
>>>>> ± (1.04) Depth: 8/26 00:00:04 1045kN
>>>>>32.Qxb7 Ne3 33.R4xe3 Bxe3 34.Nxe3 Qd3 35.Re1 R6f7 36.Qc6 Rxf2
>>>>> ± (1.00) Depth: 9/26 00:00:08 2493kN
>>>>>32.Qxb7 Ne3 33.R4xe3 Bxe3 34.Nxe3 Qd3 35.Re1 R6f7 36.Qc6 Rxf2
>>>>> ± (1.00) Depth: 9/26 00:00:10 3250kN
>>>>>32.Qxb7 Ne3 33.R4xe3 Bxe3 34.Nxe3 Qd3 35.Re1 Qd2 36.Bxe5 Qxe1+ 37.Nf1
>>>>> ² (0.60) Depth: 10/27 00:00:13 4440kN
>>>>>32.Qxb7 Ne3 33.R4xe3 Bxe3 34.Nxe3 Qd3 35.Bxe5 Qxe2 36.Bxf6 Qe1+ 37.Nf1 Rxf6
>>>>>38.Qc8+ Kh7
>>>>> ² (0.45) Depth: 10/30 00:00:19 6204kN
>>>>>32.Qxb7 Ne3 33.R4xe3 Bxe3 34.Nxe3 Qd3 35.Bxe5 Qxe2 36.Bxf6 Qe1+ 37.Nf1 Rxf6
>>>>>38.Qc8+ Kh7
>>>>> ² (0.45) Depth: 10/30 00:00:31 9566kN
>>>>>32.Qxb7 Ne3 33.R4xe3 Bxe3 34.Nxe3 Qd3 35.Bxe5 Qxe2 36.Bxf6 Rxf6 37.Qc8+ Kg7
>>>>>38.Qd7+ Kg6 39.Qe8+ Kg5 40.Qg8+ Kh4
>>>>> ² (0.30) Depth: 11/39 00:00:49 15759kN
>>>>>32.Qxb7 Ne3 33.R4xe3 Bxe3 34.Nxe3 Qd3 35.Bxe5 Qxe2 36.Bxf6 Rxf6 37.Qc8+ Kg7
>>>>>38.Qd7+ Kg6 39.Qe8+ Kg5 40.Qg8+ Kh4
>>>>> ² (0.30) Depth: 11/39 00:01:29 28821kN
>>>>>32.Qxb7 Ne3 33.R4xe3 Bxe3 34.Nxe3 Qd3 35.Bxe5 Qxe2 36.Bxf6 Rxf6 37.Qc8+ Kg7
>>>>>38.h3 Rxf2 39.Qb7+ Kg6 40.Nxg4
>>>>> = (-0.10) Depth: 12/39 00:02:05 41785kN
>>>>>32.Qxb7 Ne3 33.R4xe3 Bxe3 34.Nxe3 Qd3 35.Bxe5 Qxe2 36.Bxf6 Rxf6 37.Qc8+ Kg7
>>>>>38.Qc7+ Kh6 39.Qc2 Qe1+ 40.Nf1 Qxa5
>>>>> ³ (-0.52) Depth: 12/41 00:03:02 60532kN
>>>>>32.Qc7 Qf7 33.Qxf7+ R6xf7
>>>>> ³ (-0.51) Depth: 12/43 00:12:41 225354kN
>>>>>32.Qc7 Qf7 33.Qxf7+ R6xf7 34.Rc4 Ne7 35.Ng3 Nxd5 36.Nxh5 Nf4 37.Nxf4 Bxf4 38.Ba3
>>>>>Rd8 39.Rec2
>>>>> = (-0.14) Depth: 12/43 00:16:33 282219kN
>>>>>
>>>>>(Blass, Tel-Aviv 14.11.2003)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>5rk1/1p6/1Q1p1rqb/P2Ppn1p/4R1p1/8/1B2RPPP/5NK1 w - - 0 1
>>>>>
>>>>>Analysis by Fritz 8:
>>>>>
>>>>>32.Qxb7 h4 33.Qb4 g3 34.Rg4 gxf2+ 35.Rxf2 Bg5
>>>>> ± (1.19) Depth: 7/22 00:00:00 67kN
>>>>>32.Qxb7 Qf7 33.Qxf7+ Kxf7 34.Rc2 Ra8 35.Ra4 h4 36.a6
>>>>> ± (0.94) Depth: 8/25 00:00:01 396kN
>>>>>32.Qxb7 Qf7 33.Qxf7+ Kxf7 34.Ng3 Nxg3 35.hxg3 Ra8 36.Ra4 Ra6 37.Rc2
>>>>> ± (0.91) Depth: 9/28 00:00:02 736kN
>>>>>32.Qxb7 Qf7 33.Qxf7+ Kxf7 34.Ng3 Nxg3 35.hxg3 Ra8 36.Ra4 Ra6 37.Rc2 Ke8
>>>>> ± (0.88) Depth: 10/32 00:00:06 2039kN
>>>>>32.Qxb7--
>>>>> ² (0.59) Depth: 11/30 00:00:15 5636kN
>>>>>32.Qxb7 Ne3 33.R4xe3 Bxe3 34.Nxe3 Qd3 35.Bxe5 dxe5 36.Qb2 h4 37.Re1
>>>>> ² (0.41) Depth: 11/36 00:00:25 9478kN
>>>>>32.Qxb7 Ne3 33.R4xe3 Bxe3 34.Nxe3 Qd3 35.Bxe5 dxe5 36.Qb2 Qd4 37.Qxd4 exd4
>>>>>38.Nc4
>>>>> ² (0.50) Depth: 12/36 00:01:04 25898kN
>>>>>32.Qxb7--
>>>>> = (0.22) Depth: 13/32 00:01:35 39408kN
>>>>>32.Qxb7 Ne3 33.R4xe3 Bxe3 34.Nxe3 Qd3 35.Bxe5 Qxe2 36.Bxf6 Rxf6 37.Qc8+ Kg7
>>>>>38.Qc7+ Kh6 39.Qc1 Qxf2+ 40.Kh1
>>>>> = (-0.19) Depth: 13/41 00:02:10 54477kN
>>>>>32.Qxb7 Ne3 33.R4xe3 Bxe3 34.Nxe3 Qd3 35.Bxe5 Qxe2 36.Bxf6 Rxf6 37.Qc8+ Kg7
>>>>>38.Qc7+ Kh6 39.Qc1 Qxf2+ 40.Kh1
>>>>> = (-0.19) Depth: 14/37 00:10:12 259851kN
>>>>>
>>>>>(Blass, Tel-Aviv 14.11.2003)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The question is how long would you have to let your Athlon 1000 Ghz calculate in
>>>>order to equal the same performance as the Quad 2.8 Ghz. Also in some position
>>>>X3D Fritz calculated for more than 8 minutes which could be a lot of wasted time
>>>>on a mere 1 Ghz :-)
>>>>
>>>>Jorge
>>>
>>>I tried to see what happens after Rf6
>>>Analyzing it with Fritz I get the following line
>>>
>>>Rf6 32.Qc7 Bg5 33.Bc3 Ne7 34.Qxb7 Rxf2 35.Rxf2 Rxf2 36.Kxf2 Qxe4 Bd2 Bxd2 Nxd2
>>>Qd4+ Ke2 Nxd5 when Fritz says it is better for black but maybe it underestimates
>>>the white passed pawn.
>>
>>_______________________________________________________________________________
>>
>>Here is a comparison of how fast X3D Fritz really is on a Quad 2.8 GHz compared
>>to an Athlon 1.2 GHz. I let my Athlon 1.2 GHz for 01:15:26 and
>>it only reached Depth: 16/42 compared to X3D which reached a depth of 18 in less
>>than 4 minutes. Now consider that in some positions X3D thought for at least 8
>>minutes :-)
>
>
>>
>>http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=1301
>
>Wrong comparison.
>
>Fritz analyzed different positions and based on the link it got only depth 17 in
>the opening position.
>
>If you want to compare you need to give Fritz the opening position and see how
>much time it needs to finish depth 17.
>
>Uri
Here is some comparison
New game - Fritz 8
rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
Analysis by Fritz 8:
1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qd7 4.Nf3 Nf6
= (0.09) Depth: 7/20 00:00:00 29kN
1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Nd5 3.Nc3 Nb4 4.a3 N4c6
= (0.16) Depth: 8/25 00:00:00 94kN
1.e4 Nc6 2.Nf3 d5 3.exd5 Qxd5 4.Nc3 Qd7 5.d4 Nf6
= (0.06) Depth: 9/26 00:00:00 199kN
1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Nd5 3.d4 d6 4.Nf3 Nc6 5.Bb5
= (0.19) Depth: 10/30 00:00:02 736kN
1.e4 Nc6 2.Nf3 e5 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.0-0 Qf6 5.d3 Nd4 6.Nxd4 Bxd4
= (0.19) Depth: 11/32 00:00:06 2143kN
1.e4 Nc6 2.Nf3 e5 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.d4 exd4 5.Ng5 d5 6.Bxd5 Ne5
= (0.16) Depth: 12/34 00:00:10 3493kN
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.d4 Nxe4 4.Bd3 d5 5.dxe5 Bb4+ 6.c3 Bc5
= (0.22) Depth: 13/37 00:00:34 11892kN
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.d4 Nxe4 4.Bd3 d5 5.Nxe5 Nd7 6.0-0 Qf6 7.Bb5 c6
= (0.19) Depth: 14/45 00:01:07 24176kN
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.d4 Nxe4 4.Bd3 d5 5.Nxe5 Nd7 6.0-0 Nxe5 7.dxe5 Qh4
= (0.16) Depth: 15/41 00:02:29 54433kN
(Blass, Tel-Aviv 15.11.2003)
Fritz needed 22 seconds to get depth 15 based on the link that you gave.
It means that it is only 149/22 faster or 6-7 times faster than my A1000
If we look at nps we also get similiar estimate(I did not calculate exact value
but it is less than 10 times faster than my A1000).
Uri
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