Author: Jorge Pichard
Date: 16:57:26 11/17/03
Go up one level in this thread
On November 17, 2003 at 19:44:19, Terry McCracken wrote: >On November 17, 2003 at 19:00:22, Amir Ban wrote: > >>On November 17, 2003 at 16:18:20, Terry McCracken wrote: >> >>>None of my top commercial programmes find 14..Ne8! followed by 15..f5 >>> >>>Junior 8 comes close, but chose Nh5 and no f5, although in analysis mode it does >>>look at Ne8 and f5, strange...? >>> >>>Junior 8 also gets the second best evaluation compared to all other commercials, >>>and basically feels White is winning at move 45 but not at 14., but it does have >>>a good eval for White, about + 0.80 >>> >>>Crafty lives up to its name and considers White +- at move 14 and 45 ++! >>> >>>I tested Shredder 7.04, Chess Tiger 15, HIARCS 9, Junior 8, and yes even Fritz >>>8...at least Fritz 8 ver. 8.0.0.23 didn't look at 14...Bd6?!:) >>> >>>Junior scored the best among the commercials but it was Crafty 19.03 that was on >>>the right track consistently. >>> >>>The test was 3 min. for each programme, on my very slow PIII 500, 128MB of RAM >>>using 64MB of hash. >>> >>>My resources were down so the tests were not optimum but still good. >>> >>>Here's Craftys scores at moves 14.. and 45.. >>> >>>Hiarcs 9 - McCracken,T >>>r1bq1rk1/1p1nbppp/1Pp2n2/p1Pp4/Q2Pp3/BNN1P2P/P4PP1/R3KB1R b KQ - 0 1 >>> >>>Analysis by Crafty 19.03: >>> >>>14...Re8 15.Nxa5 >>> ² (0.62) Depth: 1/7 00:00:00 >>>14...Re8 15.Nxa5 >>> ² (0.62) Depth: 2/7 00:00:00 >>>14...Re8 15.Be2 Rf8 16.Nxa5 >>> ± (0.81) Depth: 3/7 00:00:00 >>>14...Re8 15.Be2 Rf8 16.Nxa5 >>> ± (0.81) Depth: 4/8 00:00:00 >>>14...Re8 15.Be2 Nf8 16.0-0 Ng6 17.Nxa5 >>> ± (1.33) Depth: 5/13 00:00:00 >>>14...Nxb6 15.cxb6 Bxa3 16.Qxa3 Qxb6 >>> ± (1.29) Depth: 5/13 00:00:00 >>>14...Nb8 15.Be2 Bf5 16.0-0 Nbd7 17.Nxa5 >>> ± (1.20) Depth: 5/13 00:00:00 >>>14...Rb8 15.Qxa5 Re8 16.Be2 Rf8 >>> ± (1.06) Depth: 5/13 00:00:01 >>>14...Rb8 15.Qxa5 Kh8 16.g4 Kg8 17.Be2 >>> ± (1.17) Depth: 6/19 00:00:01 40kN >>>14...Rb8 15.Be2 Ra8 16.0-0 Nb8 17.Bb4 Bf5 18.Bxa5 >>> +- (1.52) Depth: 7/19 00:00:01 87kN >>>14...Bd6 15.Be2 Nxb6 16.cxb6 Bxa3 17.Qxa3 Qxb6 >>> +- (1.46) Depth: 7/19 00:00:01 134kN >>>14...Ne8 15.Be2 Bh4 16.0-0 Qg5 17.Bb4 Nef6 18.Bxa5 >>> ± (1.24) Depth: 7/19 00:00:02 155kN >>>14...Re8 15.Be2 Nf8 16.0-0 Ng6 17.Bb2 Bf5 18.Nxa5 >>> ± (1.22) Depth: 7/19 00:00:02 180kN >>>14...h6 15.Be2 Nxb6 16.cxb6 Bxa3 17.Qxa3 Qxb6 >>> ± (1.21) Depth: 7/19 00:00:02 202kN >>>14...h6 15.Be2 Nh7 16.0-0 Bh4 17.Nxa5 Qf6 18.Qb4 >>> ± (1.34) Depth: 8/19 00:00:03 275kN >>>14...Ne8 15.Be2 f5 16.0-0 f4 17.Nxa5 f3 18.gxf3 exf3 >>> ± (1.19) Depth: 8/19 00:00:03 369kN >>>14...Ne8 15.Be2 f5 16.0-0 f4 17.Nxa5 f3 18.gxf3 exf3 >>> ± (1.19) Depth: 9/23 00:00:05 540kN >>>14...Ne8 15.Be2 f5 16.g3 Ndf6 17.Nxa5 Qd7 18.0-0 f4 19.h4 fxe3 20.fxe3 >>> ± (1.23) Depth: 10/24 00:00:08 935kN >>>14...Ne8 15.Nxa5 Nef6 16.Bc1 Rb8 17.Be2 Nxc5 18.dxc5 Bxc5 19.0-0 Bxb6 >>> ± (1.18) Depth: 11/26 00:00:26 3862kN >>>14...Ne8 15.Be2 f5 16.g3 Nef6 17.0-0 f4 18.gxf4 Nb8 19.Kg2 Qd7 20.Rh1 >>> ± (1.24) Depth: 12/28 00:01:05 10391kN >>>14...Ne8 15.Be2 f5 16.g3 Nef6 17.0-0 Qe8 18.Nxa5 Qf7 19.Qb4 Qg6 20.Bb2 Qg5 >>> ± (1.26) Depth: 13/30 00:01:49 17863kN >>> >>>(McCracken, None 17.11.2003) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Hiarcs 9 - McCracken,T >>>r6k/1r1qnppp/NPp2n1b/2Pp4/3Pp3/1RB1P1PP/R1Q2P2/K4B2 b - - 0 1 >>> >>>Analysis by Crafty 19.03: >>> >>>45...Ne8 >>> ± (1.36) Depth: 1/6 00:00:00 >>>45...Nf5 >>> ± (1.09) Depth: 1/6 00:00:00 >>>45...Nf5 46.Ra5 >>> ± (1.39) Depth: 2/6 00:00:00 >>>45...Nf5 46.g4 Ne7 >>> ± (1.37) Depth: 3/6 00:00:00 >>>45...Nf5 46.Nc7 Rxa2+ 47.Kxa2 Kg8 >>> +- (1.77) Depth: 4/8 00:00:00 >>>45...Qf5 46.g4 Qf3 47.Ra5 >>> +- (1.58) Depth: 4/8 00:00:00 >>>45...Qf5 46.g4 Qd7 47.Nc7 Rab8 >>> +- (1.66) Depth: 5/11 00:00:00 >>>45...Qf5 46.Nc7 Rxa2+ 47.Kxa2 Bxe3 48.Ba6 Rxc7 49.fxe3 >>> +- (1.90) Depth: 6/14 00:00:00 39kN >>>45...Qf5 46.Nc7 Rc8 47.Ba6 Rcxc7 48.bxc7 Rxc7 >>> +- (2.51) Depth: 7/15 00:00:01 157kN >>>45...Nf5 46.Nc7 Rab8 47.Ra7 Qxc7 48.bxc7 Rxa7+ 49.Kb2 Rxb3+ 50.Kxb3 Rxc7 >>> +- (2.48) Depth: 7/15 00:00:01 188kN >>>45...Qc8 46.Nc7 Rxa2+ 47.Qxa2 Ne8 48.Nxe8 Qxe8 49.Ba6 Rb8 >>> +- (2.33) Depth: 7/15 00:00:02 217kN >>>45...Ne8 46.Nb4 Rbb8 47.Rbb2 Rxa2+ 48.Rxa2 Qb7 49.Ra7 >>> +- (1.86) Depth: 7/15 00:00:02 265kN >>>45...Ne8 46.Nb4 Rbb8 47.Rbb2 Kg8 48.Rxa8 Rxa8+ 49.Ra2 Rb8 >>> +- (2.15) Depth: 8/22 00:00:04 419kN >>>45...Ne8 46.Nb4 Rbb8 47.Rba3 Rxa3 48.Rxa3 Nf6 49.Ra7 Rb7 >>> +- (2.32) Depth: 9/22 00:00:08 1123kN >>>45...Ne8 46.Nb4 Rbb8 47.h4 Rxa2+ 48.Kxa2 Qb7 49.Ba6 Ra8 50.Ra3 Qb8 >>> +- (2.41) Depth: 10/23 00:00:16 2605kN >>>45...Ne8 46.Nb4 Rbb8 47.h4 Kg8 48.Ba6 Nf5 49.Kb1 g6 50.Rab2 Bg7 >>> +- (2.46) Depth: 11/24 00:00:32 5642kN >>>45...Ne8 46.Nb4 Rbb8 47.h4 Kg8 48.Rba3 Rxa3 49.Rxa3 Qb7 50.Ra7 Ra8 51.Rxa8 Qxa8+ >>> +- (2.48) Depth: 12/25 00:01:00 11240kN >>>45...Ne8 46.Nb4 Rbb8 47.h4 Kg8 48.Rxa8 Rxa8+ 49.Ba6 Qc8 50.Ra3 Qd8 51.b7 Rb8 >>>52.Kb1 >>> +- (2.54) Depth: 13/26 00:01:54 22385kN >>> >>>(McCracken, None 17.11.2003) >>> >>> >>>Congratulations Dr. Robert Hyatt! >>> >>>Also, Amir and Shay for being close...maybe Deep Junior 8 would have done >>>better?...I can't test it. >>> >>>Terry >> >>Thanks, but I don't think it's deserved. I get only +0.30 on my notebook. >> >>If you ask me, +0.30 is better than +0.80 on move 14, because I don't see that >>white is better. >> >>IIRC Crafty has asymetric evaluation and its eval from the white side will be >>different. >> >>Why is it urgent to play f5 at move 15 ? What's wrong with 5 moves later ? >> >>Amir > >IMO White is clearly better, and was better throughout most of the game, by move >14 I feel that Black had to fight for a draw. I doubt 15.f5! would have saved >Black, but it was the best practical chance. Leaving it another 5 moves, gives >White 5 moves to continue to improve and consolidate his position. > >Fritz had no chance in this setup....long term planning is above all programmes, >even Crafty. > >I think Juniors style is top notch, and Rebel for that matter, but until enough >knowledge and speed, and the right algorithms are created and perfected, long >range planning will allude all computers. > >But I believe that day will come, when it all comes together, and in my >lifetime. > >Chess programmes and I are about the same age, so I'm optimistic;-) >But I'm not optimistic about my chances to beat them ever, by then:/ > >Terry http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?328315
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