Author: Amir Ban
Date: 17:13:12 11/17/03
Go up one level in this thread
On November 17, 2003 at 20:00:38, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On November 17, 2003 at 19:00:22, Amir Ban wrote: > >>On November 17, 2003 at 16:18:20, Terry McCracken wrote: >> >>>None of my top commercial programmes find 14..Ne8! followed by 15..f5 >>> >>>Junior 8 comes close, but chose Nh5 and no f5, although in analysis mode it does >>>look at Ne8 and f5, strange...? >>> >>>Junior 8 also gets the second best evaluation compared to all other commercials, >>>and basically feels White is winning at move 45 but not at 14., but it does have >>>a good eval for White, about + 0.80 >>> >>>Crafty lives up to its name and considers White +- at move 14 and 45 ++! >>> >>>I tested Shredder 7.04, Chess Tiger 15, HIARCS 9, Junior 8, and yes even Fritz >>>8...at least Fritz 8 ver. 8.0.0.23 didn't look at 14...Bd6?!:) >>> >>>Junior scored the best among the commercials but it was Crafty 19.03 that was on >>>the right track consistently. >>> >>>The test was 3 min. for each programme, on my very slow PIII 500, 128MB of RAM >>>using 64MB of hash. >>> >>>My resources were down so the tests were not optimum but still good. >>> >>>Here's Craftys scores at moves 14.. and 45.. >>> >>>Hiarcs 9 - McCracken,T >>>r1bq1rk1/1p1nbppp/1Pp2n2/p1Pp4/Q2Pp3/BNN1P2P/P4PP1/R3KB1R b KQ - 0 1 >>> >>>Analysis by Crafty 19.03: >>> >>>14...Re8 15.Nxa5 >>> ² (0.62) Depth: 1/7 00:00:00 >>>14...Re8 15.Nxa5 >>> ² (0.62) Depth: 2/7 00:00:00 >>>14...Re8 15.Be2 Rf8 16.Nxa5 >>> ± (0.81) Depth: 3/7 00:00:00 >>>14...Re8 15.Be2 Rf8 16.Nxa5 >>> ± (0.81) Depth: 4/8 00:00:00 >>>14...Re8 15.Be2 Nf8 16.0-0 Ng6 17.Nxa5 >>> ± (1.33) Depth: 5/13 00:00:00 >>>14...Nxb6 15.cxb6 Bxa3 16.Qxa3 Qxb6 >>> ± (1.29) Depth: 5/13 00:00:00 >>>14...Nb8 15.Be2 Bf5 16.0-0 Nbd7 17.Nxa5 >>> ± (1.20) Depth: 5/13 00:00:00 >>>14...Rb8 15.Qxa5 Re8 16.Be2 Rf8 >>> ± (1.06) Depth: 5/13 00:00:01 >>>14...Rb8 15.Qxa5 Kh8 16.g4 Kg8 17.Be2 >>> ± (1.17) Depth: 6/19 00:00:01 40kN >>>14...Rb8 15.Be2 Ra8 16.0-0 Nb8 17.Bb4 Bf5 18.Bxa5 >>> +- (1.52) Depth: 7/19 00:00:01 87kN >>>14...Bd6 15.Be2 Nxb6 16.cxb6 Bxa3 17.Qxa3 Qxb6 >>> +- (1.46) Depth: 7/19 00:00:01 134kN >>>14...Ne8 15.Be2 Bh4 16.0-0 Qg5 17.Bb4 Nef6 18.Bxa5 >>> ± (1.24) Depth: 7/19 00:00:02 155kN >>>14...Re8 15.Be2 Nf8 16.0-0 Ng6 17.Bb2 Bf5 18.Nxa5 >>> ± (1.22) Depth: 7/19 00:00:02 180kN >>>14...h6 15.Be2 Nxb6 16.cxb6 Bxa3 17.Qxa3 Qxb6 >>> ± (1.21) Depth: 7/19 00:00:02 202kN >>>14...h6 15.Be2 Nh7 16.0-0 Bh4 17.Nxa5 Qf6 18.Qb4 >>> ± (1.34) Depth: 8/19 00:00:03 275kN >>>14...Ne8 15.Be2 f5 16.0-0 f4 17.Nxa5 f3 18.gxf3 exf3 >>> ± (1.19) Depth: 8/19 00:00:03 369kN >>>14...Ne8 15.Be2 f5 16.0-0 f4 17.Nxa5 f3 18.gxf3 exf3 >>> ± (1.19) Depth: 9/23 00:00:05 540kN >>>14...Ne8 15.Be2 f5 16.g3 Ndf6 17.Nxa5 Qd7 18.0-0 f4 19.h4 fxe3 20.fxe3 >>> ± (1.23) Depth: 10/24 00:00:08 935kN >>>14...Ne8 15.Nxa5 Nef6 16.Bc1 Rb8 17.Be2 Nxc5 18.dxc5 Bxc5 19.0-0 Bxb6 >>> ± (1.18) Depth: 11/26 00:00:26 3862kN >>>14...Ne8 15.Be2 f5 16.g3 Nef6 17.0-0 f4 18.gxf4 Nb8 19.Kg2 Qd7 20.Rh1 >>> ± (1.24) Depth: 12/28 00:01:05 10391kN >>>14...Ne8 15.Be2 f5 16.g3 Nef6 17.0-0 Qe8 18.Nxa5 Qf7 19.Qb4 Qg6 20.Bb2 Qg5 >>> ± (1.26) Depth: 13/30 00:01:49 17863kN >>> >>>(McCracken, None 17.11.2003) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Hiarcs 9 - McCracken,T >>>r6k/1r1qnppp/NPp2n1b/2Pp4/3Pp3/1RB1P1PP/R1Q2P2/K4B2 b - - 0 1 >>> >>>Analysis by Crafty 19.03: >>> >>>45...Ne8 >>> ± (1.36) Depth: 1/6 00:00:00 >>>45...Nf5 >>> ± (1.09) Depth: 1/6 00:00:00 >>>45...Nf5 46.Ra5 >>> ± (1.39) Depth: 2/6 00:00:00 >>>45...Nf5 46.g4 Ne7 >>> ± (1.37) Depth: 3/6 00:00:00 >>>45...Nf5 46.Nc7 Rxa2+ 47.Kxa2 Kg8 >>> +- (1.77) Depth: 4/8 00:00:00 >>>45...Qf5 46.g4 Qf3 47.Ra5 >>> +- (1.58) Depth: 4/8 00:00:00 >>>45...Qf5 46.g4 Qd7 47.Nc7 Rab8 >>> +- (1.66) Depth: 5/11 00:00:00 >>>45...Qf5 46.Nc7 Rxa2+ 47.Kxa2 Bxe3 48.Ba6 Rxc7 49.fxe3 >>> +- (1.90) Depth: 6/14 00:00:00 39kN >>>45...Qf5 46.Nc7 Rc8 47.Ba6 Rcxc7 48.bxc7 Rxc7 >>> +- (2.51) Depth: 7/15 00:00:01 157kN >>>45...Nf5 46.Nc7 Rab8 47.Ra7 Qxc7 48.bxc7 Rxa7+ 49.Kb2 Rxb3+ 50.Kxb3 Rxc7 >>> +- (2.48) Depth: 7/15 00:00:01 188kN >>>45...Qc8 46.Nc7 Rxa2+ 47.Qxa2 Ne8 48.Nxe8 Qxe8 49.Ba6 Rb8 >>> +- (2.33) Depth: 7/15 00:00:02 217kN >>>45...Ne8 46.Nb4 Rbb8 47.Rbb2 Rxa2+ 48.Rxa2 Qb7 49.Ra7 >>> +- (1.86) Depth: 7/15 00:00:02 265kN >>>45...Ne8 46.Nb4 Rbb8 47.Rbb2 Kg8 48.Rxa8 Rxa8+ 49.Ra2 Rb8 >>> +- (2.15) Depth: 8/22 00:00:04 419kN >>>45...Ne8 46.Nb4 Rbb8 47.Rba3 Rxa3 48.Rxa3 Nf6 49.Ra7 Rb7 >>> +- (2.32) Depth: 9/22 00:00:08 1123kN >>>45...Ne8 46.Nb4 Rbb8 47.h4 Rxa2+ 48.Kxa2 Qb7 49.Ba6 Ra8 50.Ra3 Qb8 >>> +- (2.41) Depth: 10/23 00:00:16 2605kN >>>45...Ne8 46.Nb4 Rbb8 47.h4 Kg8 48.Ba6 Nf5 49.Kb1 g6 50.Rab2 Bg7 >>> +- (2.46) Depth: 11/24 00:00:32 5642kN >>>45...Ne8 46.Nb4 Rbb8 47.h4 Kg8 48.Rba3 Rxa3 49.Rxa3 Qb7 50.Ra7 Ra8 51.Rxa8 Qxa8+ >>> +- (2.48) Depth: 12/25 00:01:00 11240kN >>>45...Ne8 46.Nb4 Rbb8 47.h4 Kg8 48.Rxa8 Rxa8+ 49.Ba6 Qc8 50.Ra3 Qd8 51.b7 Rb8 >>>52.Kb1 >>> +- (2.54) Depth: 13/26 00:01:54 22385kN >>> >>>(McCracken, None 17.11.2003) >>> >>> >>>Congratulations Dr. Robert Hyatt! >>> >>>Also, Amir and Shay for being close...maybe Deep Junior 8 would have done >>>better?...I can't test it. >>> >>>Terry >> >>Thanks, but I don't think it's deserved. I get only +0.30 on my notebook. >> >>If you ask me, +0.30 is better than +0.80 on move 14, because I don't see that >>white is better. >> >>IIRC Crafty has asymetric evaluation and its eval from the white side will be >>different. > >My asymmetry is turned off when doing analysis like this on ICC. Of course, >if someone just sets up the position and says "make a move" the asymmetry will >be on. > Ok, now I have to check. This is the Chessbase engine analysis for white's 14th move, followed by black's 14th move. Looks different. From the white side, Crafty thinks black is better. Amir r1bq1rk1/1p1nbppp/1Pp2n2/p1Pp4/Q2Pp3/B1N1P2P/P2N1PP1/R3KB1R w KQ - 0 1 Analysis by Crafty 19.01: 14.Qd1 ³ (-0.68) Depth: 1/6 00:00:00 14.Qd1 Nxb6 -+ (-1.74) Depth: 2/6 00:00:00 14.Be2 h6 µ (-1.08) Depth: 2/6 00:00:00 14.f3 exf3 15.Nxf3 µ (-0.88) Depth: 2/6 00:00:00 14.Nb3 Re8 15.Nxa5 ³ (-0.31) Depth: 2/6 00:00:00 14.Nb3 Re8 15.Nxa5 ³ (-0.31) Depth: 3/8 00:00:00 14.Nb3 h5 15.Be2 h4 16.Nxa5 ³ (-0.34) Depth: 4/8 00:00:00 14.Nb3 h5 15.Be2 h4 16.Nxa5 ³ (-0.34) Depth: 5/14 00:00:00 14.Nb3 Ne8 15.Nxa5 f5 16.g4 Rf6 = (-0.18) Depth: 6/14 00:00:00 27kN 14.Nb3 Ne8 15.Nxa5 f5 16.g4 Bh4 17.Nd1 = (-0.12) Depth: 7/20 00:00:01 64kN 14.Nb3 h5 15.Nxa5 h4 16.Be2 Nh7 17.g3 Re8 18.gxh4 Bxh4 = (-0.10) Depth: 8/20 00:00:02 210kN 14.Nb3 h5 15.Nxa5 h4 16.Bc1 Qe8 17.g3 Nh7 18.gxh4 Bxh4 = (-0.06) Depth: 9/20 00:00:04 400kN (Ban, M-Systems 18.11.2003) r1bq1rk1/1p1nbppp/1Pp2n2/p1Pp4/Q2Pp3/BNN1P2P/P4PP1/R3KB1R b KQ - 0 1 Analysis by Crafty 19.01: 14...Re8 15.Nxa5 ² (0.68) Depth: 1/8 00:00:00 14...Re8 15.Nxa5 ² (0.68) Depth: 2/8 00:00:00 14...Re8 15.Be2 Rf8 16.Nxa5 ± (0.87) Depth: 3/8 00:00:00 14...Re8 15.Be2 Rf8 16.Nxa5 ± (0.87) Depth: 4/8 00:00:00 14...Re8 15.Be2 Nf8 16.0-0 Ng6 17.Nxa5 ± (1.23) Depth: 5/12 00:00:00 14...Nb8 15.Be2 Bf5 16.0-0 Nbd7 17.Nxa5 ± (1.10) Depth: 5/12 00:00:00 14...Nb8 15.Be2 Bf5 16.0-0 Nbd7 17.Nxa5 ± (1.10) Depth: 6/16 00:00:00 37kN 14...Nb8 15.Be2 Bf5 16.0-0 Nbd7 17.Bb2 Re8 18.Nxa5 ± (1.14) Depth: 7/17 00:00:01 73kN 14...Re8 15.Be2 Nf8 16.0-0 Ng6 17.Bb2 Bf5 18.Nxa5 ± (1.12) Depth: 7/17 00:00:01 154kN 14...Re8 15.Be2 Nf8 16.0-0 Ng6 17.Nxa5 Bf5 18.Qb4 ± (1.15) Depth: 8/17 00:00:02 201kN 14...Re8 15.Be2 Nf8 16.0-0 Ng6 17.Bb2 Qd7 18.Rad1 Qf5 19.Nxa5 ± (1.11) Depth: 9/26 00:00:04 437kN 14...Re8 15.Be2 Nf8 16.Nxa5 Be6 17.0-0 Qd7 18.Qb4 Ng6 19.Nb3 ± (1.24) Depth: 10/26 00:00:07 848kN (Ban, M-Systems 18.11.2003) > >> >>Why is it urgent to play f5 at move 15 ? What's wrong with 5 moves later ? > >I don't think there is any great urgency, but for every delay, black tosses a >tempo and white spends one wisely. Sooner or later, black won't have time for >f5 and there you go... > > >> >>Amir
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.