Author: Amir Ban
Date: 01:42:16 11/18/03
Go up one level in this thread
On November 17, 2003 at 20:22:50, Uri Blass wrote: >On November 17, 2003 at 20:13:12, Amir Ban wrote: > >>On November 17, 2003 at 20:00:38, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On November 17, 2003 at 19:00:22, Amir Ban wrote: >>> >>>>On November 17, 2003 at 16:18:20, Terry McCracken wrote: >>>> >>>>>None of my top commercial programmes find 14..Ne8! followed by 15..f5 >>>>> >>>>>Junior 8 comes close, but chose Nh5 and no f5, although in analysis mode it does >>>>>look at Ne8 and f5, strange...? >>>>> >>>>>Junior 8 also gets the second best evaluation compared to all other commercials, >>>>>and basically feels White is winning at move 45 but not at 14., but it does have >>>>>a good eval for White, about + 0.80 >>>>> >>>>>Crafty lives up to its name and considers White +- at move 14 and 45 ++! >>>>> >>>>>I tested Shredder 7.04, Chess Tiger 15, HIARCS 9, Junior 8, and yes even Fritz >>>>>8...at least Fritz 8 ver. 8.0.0.23 didn't look at 14...Bd6?!:) >>>>> >>>>>Junior scored the best among the commercials but it was Crafty 19.03 that was on >>>>>the right track consistently. >>>>> >>>>>The test was 3 min. for each programme, on my very slow PIII 500, 128MB of RAM >>>>>using 64MB of hash. >>>>> >>>>>My resources were down so the tests were not optimum but still good. >>>>> >>>>>Here's Craftys scores at moves 14.. and 45.. >>>>> >>>>>Hiarcs 9 - McCracken,T >>>>>r1bq1rk1/1p1nbppp/1Pp2n2/p1Pp4/Q2Pp3/BNN1P2P/P4PP1/R3KB1R b KQ - 0 1 >>>>> >>>>>Analysis by Crafty 19.03: >>>>> >>>>>14...Re8 15.Nxa5 >>>>> ² (0.62) Depth: 1/7 00:00:00 >>>>>14...Re8 15.Nxa5 >>>>> ² (0.62) Depth: 2/7 00:00:00 >>>>>14...Re8 15.Be2 Rf8 16.Nxa5 >>>>> ± (0.81) Depth: 3/7 00:00:00 >>>>>14...Re8 15.Be2 Rf8 16.Nxa5 >>>>> ± (0.81) Depth: 4/8 00:00:00 >>>>>14...Re8 15.Be2 Nf8 16.0-0 Ng6 17.Nxa5 >>>>> ± (1.33) Depth: 5/13 00:00:00 >>>>>14...Nxb6 15.cxb6 Bxa3 16.Qxa3 Qxb6 >>>>> ± (1.29) Depth: 5/13 00:00:00 >>>>>14...Nb8 15.Be2 Bf5 16.0-0 Nbd7 17.Nxa5 >>>>> ± (1.20) Depth: 5/13 00:00:00 >>>>>14...Rb8 15.Qxa5 Re8 16.Be2 Rf8 >>>>> ± (1.06) Depth: 5/13 00:00:01 >>>>>14...Rb8 15.Qxa5 Kh8 16.g4 Kg8 17.Be2 >>>>> ± (1.17) Depth: 6/19 00:00:01 40kN >>>>>14...Rb8 15.Be2 Ra8 16.0-0 Nb8 17.Bb4 Bf5 18.Bxa5 >>>>> +- (1.52) Depth: 7/19 00:00:01 87kN >>>>>14...Bd6 15.Be2 Nxb6 16.cxb6 Bxa3 17.Qxa3 Qxb6 >>>>> +- (1.46) Depth: 7/19 00:00:01 134kN >>>>>14...Ne8 15.Be2 Bh4 16.0-0 Qg5 17.Bb4 Nef6 18.Bxa5 >>>>> ± (1.24) Depth: 7/19 00:00:02 155kN >>>>>14...Re8 15.Be2 Nf8 16.0-0 Ng6 17.Bb2 Bf5 18.Nxa5 >>>>> ± (1.22) Depth: 7/19 00:00:02 180kN >>>>>14...h6 15.Be2 Nxb6 16.cxb6 Bxa3 17.Qxa3 Qxb6 >>>>> ± (1.21) Depth: 7/19 00:00:02 202kN >>>>>14...h6 15.Be2 Nh7 16.0-0 Bh4 17.Nxa5 Qf6 18.Qb4 >>>>> ± (1.34) Depth: 8/19 00:00:03 275kN >>>>>14...Ne8 15.Be2 f5 16.0-0 f4 17.Nxa5 f3 18.gxf3 exf3 >>>>> ± (1.19) Depth: 8/19 00:00:03 369kN >>>>>14...Ne8 15.Be2 f5 16.0-0 f4 17.Nxa5 f3 18.gxf3 exf3 >>>>> ± (1.19) Depth: 9/23 00:00:05 540kN >>>>>14...Ne8 15.Be2 f5 16.g3 Ndf6 17.Nxa5 Qd7 18.0-0 f4 19.h4 fxe3 20.fxe3 >>>>> ± (1.23) Depth: 10/24 00:00:08 935kN >>>>>14...Ne8 15.Nxa5 Nef6 16.Bc1 Rb8 17.Be2 Nxc5 18.dxc5 Bxc5 19.0-0 Bxb6 >>>>> ± (1.18) Depth: 11/26 00:00:26 3862kN >>>>>14...Ne8 15.Be2 f5 16.g3 Nef6 17.0-0 f4 18.gxf4 Nb8 19.Kg2 Qd7 20.Rh1 >>>>> ± (1.24) Depth: 12/28 00:01:05 10391kN >>>>>14...Ne8 15.Be2 f5 16.g3 Nef6 17.0-0 Qe8 18.Nxa5 Qf7 19.Qb4 Qg6 20.Bb2 Qg5 >>>>> ± (1.26) Depth: 13/30 00:01:49 17863kN >>>>> >>>>>(McCracken, None 17.11.2003) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Hiarcs 9 - McCracken,T >>>>>r6k/1r1qnppp/NPp2n1b/2Pp4/3Pp3/1RB1P1PP/R1Q2P2/K4B2 b - - 0 1 >>>>> >>>>>Analysis by Crafty 19.03: >>>>> >>>>>45...Ne8 >>>>> ± (1.36) Depth: 1/6 00:00:00 >>>>>45...Nf5 >>>>> ± (1.09) Depth: 1/6 00:00:00 >>>>>45...Nf5 46.Ra5 >>>>> ± (1.39) Depth: 2/6 00:00:00 >>>>>45...Nf5 46.g4 Ne7 >>>>> ± (1.37) Depth: 3/6 00:00:00 >>>>>45...Nf5 46.Nc7 Rxa2+ 47.Kxa2 Kg8 >>>>> +- (1.77) Depth: 4/8 00:00:00 >>>>>45...Qf5 46.g4 Qf3 47.Ra5 >>>>> +- (1.58) Depth: 4/8 00:00:00 >>>>>45...Qf5 46.g4 Qd7 47.Nc7 Rab8 >>>>> +- (1.66) Depth: 5/11 00:00:00 >>>>>45...Qf5 46.Nc7 Rxa2+ 47.Kxa2 Bxe3 48.Ba6 Rxc7 49.fxe3 >>>>> +- (1.90) Depth: 6/14 00:00:00 39kN >>>>>45...Qf5 46.Nc7 Rc8 47.Ba6 Rcxc7 48.bxc7 Rxc7 >>>>> +- (2.51) Depth: 7/15 00:00:01 157kN >>>>>45...Nf5 46.Nc7 Rab8 47.Ra7 Qxc7 48.bxc7 Rxa7+ 49.Kb2 Rxb3+ 50.Kxb3 Rxc7 >>>>> +- (2.48) Depth: 7/15 00:00:01 188kN >>>>>45...Qc8 46.Nc7 Rxa2+ 47.Qxa2 Ne8 48.Nxe8 Qxe8 49.Ba6 Rb8 >>>>> +- (2.33) Depth: 7/15 00:00:02 217kN >>>>>45...Ne8 46.Nb4 Rbb8 47.Rbb2 Rxa2+ 48.Rxa2 Qb7 49.Ra7 >>>>> +- (1.86) Depth: 7/15 00:00:02 265kN >>>>>45...Ne8 46.Nb4 Rbb8 47.Rbb2 Kg8 48.Rxa8 Rxa8+ 49.Ra2 Rb8 >>>>> +- (2.15) Depth: 8/22 00:00:04 419kN >>>>>45...Ne8 46.Nb4 Rbb8 47.Rba3 Rxa3 48.Rxa3 Nf6 49.Ra7 Rb7 >>>>> +- (2.32) Depth: 9/22 00:00:08 1123kN >>>>>45...Ne8 46.Nb4 Rbb8 47.h4 Rxa2+ 48.Kxa2 Qb7 49.Ba6 Ra8 50.Ra3 Qb8 >>>>> +- (2.41) Depth: 10/23 00:00:16 2605kN >>>>>45...Ne8 46.Nb4 Rbb8 47.h4 Kg8 48.Ba6 Nf5 49.Kb1 g6 50.Rab2 Bg7 >>>>> +- (2.46) Depth: 11/24 00:00:32 5642kN >>>>>45...Ne8 46.Nb4 Rbb8 47.h4 Kg8 48.Rba3 Rxa3 49.Rxa3 Qb7 50.Ra7 Ra8 51.Rxa8 Qxa8+ >>>>> +- (2.48) Depth: 12/25 00:01:00 11240kN >>>>>45...Ne8 46.Nb4 Rbb8 47.h4 Kg8 48.Rxa8 Rxa8+ 49.Ba6 Qc8 50.Ra3 Qd8 51.b7 Rb8 >>>>>52.Kb1 >>>>> +- (2.54) Depth: 13/26 00:01:54 22385kN >>>>> >>>>>(McCracken, None 17.11.2003) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Congratulations Dr. Robert Hyatt! >>>>> >>>>>Also, Amir and Shay for being close...maybe Deep Junior 8 would have done >>>>>better?...I can't test it. >>>>> >>>>>Terry >>>> >>>>Thanks, but I don't think it's deserved. I get only +0.30 on my notebook. >>>> >>>>If you ask me, +0.30 is better than +0.80 on move 14, because I don't see that >>>>white is better. >>>> >>>>IIRC Crafty has asymetric evaluation and its eval from the white side will be >>>>different. >>> >>>My asymmetry is turned off when doing analysis like this on ICC. Of course, >>>if someone just sets up the position and says "make a move" the asymmetry will >>>be on. >>> >> >>Ok, now I have to check. This is the Chessbase engine analysis for white's 14th >>move, followed by black's 14th move. >> >>Looks different. From the white side, Crafty thinks black is better. >> >>Amir >> >> >>r1bq1rk1/1p1nbppp/1Pp2n2/p1Pp4/Q2Pp3/B1N1P2P/P2N1PP1/R3KB1R w KQ - 0 1 >> >>Analysis by Crafty 19.01: >> >>14.Qd1 >> ³ (-0.68) Depth: 1/6 00:00:00 >>14.Qd1 Nxb6 >> -+ (-1.74) Depth: 2/6 00:00:00 >>14.Be2 h6 >> µ (-1.08) Depth: 2/6 00:00:00 >>14.f3 exf3 15.Nxf3 >> µ (-0.88) Depth: 2/6 00:00:00 >>14.Nb3 Re8 15.Nxa5 >> ³ (-0.31) Depth: 2/6 00:00:00 >>14.Nb3 Re8 15.Nxa5 >> ³ (-0.31) Depth: 3/8 00:00:00 >>14.Nb3 h5 15.Be2 h4 16.Nxa5 >> ³ (-0.34) Depth: 4/8 00:00:00 >>14.Nb3 h5 15.Be2 h4 16.Nxa5 >> ³ (-0.34) Depth: 5/14 00:00:00 >>14.Nb3 Ne8 15.Nxa5 f5 16.g4 Rf6 >> = (-0.18) Depth: 6/14 00:00:00 27kN >>14.Nb3 Ne8 15.Nxa5 f5 16.g4 Bh4 17.Nd1 >> = (-0.12) Depth: 7/20 00:00:01 64kN >>14.Nb3 h5 15.Nxa5 h4 16.Be2 Nh7 17.g3 Re8 18.gxh4 Bxh4 >> = (-0.10) Depth: 8/20 00:00:02 210kN >>14.Nb3 h5 15.Nxa5 h4 16.Bc1 Qe8 17.g3 Nh7 18.gxh4 Bxh4 >> = (-0.06) Depth: 9/20 00:00:04 400kN >> >>(Ban, M-Systems 18.11.2003) >> >> >>r1bq1rk1/1p1nbppp/1Pp2n2/p1Pp4/Q2Pp3/BNN1P2P/P4PP1/R3KB1R b KQ - 0 1 >> >>Analysis by Crafty 19.01: >> >>14...Re8 15.Nxa5 >> ² (0.68) Depth: 1/8 00:00:00 >>14...Re8 15.Nxa5 >> ² (0.68) Depth: 2/8 00:00:00 >>14...Re8 15.Be2 Rf8 16.Nxa5 >> ± (0.87) Depth: 3/8 00:00:00 >>14...Re8 15.Be2 Rf8 16.Nxa5 >> ± (0.87) Depth: 4/8 00:00:00 >>14...Re8 15.Be2 Nf8 16.0-0 Ng6 17.Nxa5 >> ± (1.23) Depth: 5/12 00:00:00 >>14...Nb8 15.Be2 Bf5 16.0-0 Nbd7 17.Nxa5 >> ± (1.10) Depth: 5/12 00:00:00 >>14...Nb8 15.Be2 Bf5 16.0-0 Nbd7 17.Nxa5 >> ± (1.10) Depth: 6/16 00:00:00 37kN >>14...Nb8 15.Be2 Bf5 16.0-0 Nbd7 17.Bb2 Re8 18.Nxa5 >> ± (1.14) Depth: 7/17 00:00:01 73kN >>14...Re8 15.Be2 Nf8 16.0-0 Ng6 17.Bb2 Bf5 18.Nxa5 >> ± (1.12) Depth: 7/17 00:00:01 154kN >>14...Re8 15.Be2 Nf8 16.0-0 Ng6 17.Nxa5 Bf5 18.Qb4 >> ± (1.15) Depth: 8/17 00:00:02 201kN >>14...Re8 15.Be2 Nf8 16.0-0 Ng6 17.Bb2 Qd7 18.Rad1 Qf5 19.Nxa5 >> ± (1.11) Depth: 9/26 00:00:04 437kN >>14...Re8 15.Be2 Nf8 16.Nxa5 Be6 17.0-0 Qd7 18.Qb4 Ng6 19.Nb3 >> ± (1.24) Depth: 10/26 00:00:07 848kN >> >>(Ban, M-Systems 18.11.2003) > >2 points: > >1)Crafty19.01 is not the latest Crafty >2)Bob does not use chessbase > TMC posted the crafty analysis from Chessbase. >Crafty is a winboard engine and I guess that it is best to use it under winboard >because I am not sure if things work correctly under chessbase(I do not know how >it works and maybe Crafty is asked to play at very long time control instead of >analyzing) > We were not discussing how to use crafty best. Amir >Uri
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