Author: Ed Schröder
Date: 03:39:49 11/18/03
Go up one level in this thread
On November 17, 2003 at 19:44:19, Terry McCracken wrote:
>On November 17, 2003 at 19:00:22, Amir Ban wrote:
>
>>On November 17, 2003 at 16:18:20, Terry McCracken wrote:
>>
>>>None of my top commercial programmes find 14..Ne8! followed by 15..f5
>>>
>>>Junior 8 comes close, but chose Nh5 and no f5, although in analysis mode it does
>>>look at Ne8 and f5, strange...?
>>>
>>>Junior 8 also gets the second best evaluation compared to all other commercials,
>>>and basically feels White is winning at move 45 but not at 14., but it does have
>>>a good eval for White, about + 0.80
>>>
>>>Crafty lives up to its name and considers White +- at move 14 and 45 ++!
>>>
>>>I tested Shredder 7.04, Chess Tiger 15, HIARCS 9, Junior 8, and yes even Fritz
>>>8...at least Fritz 8 ver. 8.0.0.23 didn't look at 14...Bd6?!:)
>>>
>>>Junior scored the best among the commercials but it was Crafty 19.03 that was on
>>>the right track consistently.
>>>
>>>The test was 3 min. for each programme, on my very slow PIII 500, 128MB of RAM
>>>using 64MB of hash.
>>>
>>>My resources were down so the tests were not optimum but still good.
>>>
>>>Here's Craftys scores at moves 14.. and 45..
>>>
>>>Hiarcs 9 - McCracken,T
>>>r1bq1rk1/1p1nbppp/1Pp2n2/p1Pp4/Q2Pp3/BNN1P2P/P4PP1/R3KB1R b KQ - 0 1
>>>
>>>Analysis by Crafty 19.03:
>>>
>>>14...Re8 15.Nxa5
>>> ² (0.62) Depth: 1/7 00:00:00
>>>14...Re8 15.Nxa5
>>> ² (0.62) Depth: 2/7 00:00:00
>>>14...Re8 15.Be2 Rf8 16.Nxa5
>>> ± (0.81) Depth: 3/7 00:00:00
>>>14...Re8 15.Be2 Rf8 16.Nxa5
>>> ± (0.81) Depth: 4/8 00:00:00
>>>14...Re8 15.Be2 Nf8 16.0-0 Ng6 17.Nxa5
>>> ± (1.33) Depth: 5/13 00:00:00
>>>14...Nxb6 15.cxb6 Bxa3 16.Qxa3 Qxb6
>>> ± (1.29) Depth: 5/13 00:00:00
>>>14...Nb8 15.Be2 Bf5 16.0-0 Nbd7 17.Nxa5
>>> ± (1.20) Depth: 5/13 00:00:00
>>>14...Rb8 15.Qxa5 Re8 16.Be2 Rf8
>>> ± (1.06) Depth: 5/13 00:00:01
>>>14...Rb8 15.Qxa5 Kh8 16.g4 Kg8 17.Be2
>>> ± (1.17) Depth: 6/19 00:00:01 40kN
>>>14...Rb8 15.Be2 Ra8 16.0-0 Nb8 17.Bb4 Bf5 18.Bxa5
>>> +- (1.52) Depth: 7/19 00:00:01 87kN
>>>14...Bd6 15.Be2 Nxb6 16.cxb6 Bxa3 17.Qxa3 Qxb6
>>> +- (1.46) Depth: 7/19 00:00:01 134kN
>>>14...Ne8 15.Be2 Bh4 16.0-0 Qg5 17.Bb4 Nef6 18.Bxa5
>>> ± (1.24) Depth: 7/19 00:00:02 155kN
>>>14...Re8 15.Be2 Nf8 16.0-0 Ng6 17.Bb2 Bf5 18.Nxa5
>>> ± (1.22) Depth: 7/19 00:00:02 180kN
>>>14...h6 15.Be2 Nxb6 16.cxb6 Bxa3 17.Qxa3 Qxb6
>>> ± (1.21) Depth: 7/19 00:00:02 202kN
>>>14...h6 15.Be2 Nh7 16.0-0 Bh4 17.Nxa5 Qf6 18.Qb4
>>> ± (1.34) Depth: 8/19 00:00:03 275kN
>>>14...Ne8 15.Be2 f5 16.0-0 f4 17.Nxa5 f3 18.gxf3 exf3
>>> ± (1.19) Depth: 8/19 00:00:03 369kN
>>>14...Ne8 15.Be2 f5 16.0-0 f4 17.Nxa5 f3 18.gxf3 exf3
>>> ± (1.19) Depth: 9/23 00:00:05 540kN
>>>14...Ne8 15.Be2 f5 16.g3 Ndf6 17.Nxa5 Qd7 18.0-0 f4 19.h4 fxe3 20.fxe3
>>> ± (1.23) Depth: 10/24 00:00:08 935kN
>>>14...Ne8 15.Nxa5 Nef6 16.Bc1 Rb8 17.Be2 Nxc5 18.dxc5 Bxc5 19.0-0 Bxb6
>>> ± (1.18) Depth: 11/26 00:00:26 3862kN
>>>14...Ne8 15.Be2 f5 16.g3 Nef6 17.0-0 f4 18.gxf4 Nb8 19.Kg2 Qd7 20.Rh1
>>> ± (1.24) Depth: 12/28 00:01:05 10391kN
>>>14...Ne8 15.Be2 f5 16.g3 Nef6 17.0-0 Qe8 18.Nxa5 Qf7 19.Qb4 Qg6 20.Bb2 Qg5
>>> ± (1.26) Depth: 13/30 00:01:49 17863kN
>>>
>>>(McCracken, None 17.11.2003)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Hiarcs 9 - McCracken,T
>>>r6k/1r1qnppp/NPp2n1b/2Pp4/3Pp3/1RB1P1PP/R1Q2P2/K4B2 b - - 0 1
>>>
>>>Analysis by Crafty 19.03:
>>>
>>>45...Ne8
>>> ± (1.36) Depth: 1/6 00:00:00
>>>45...Nf5
>>> ± (1.09) Depth: 1/6 00:00:00
>>>45...Nf5 46.Ra5
>>> ± (1.39) Depth: 2/6 00:00:00
>>>45...Nf5 46.g4 Ne7
>>> ± (1.37) Depth: 3/6 00:00:00
>>>45...Nf5 46.Nc7 Rxa2+ 47.Kxa2 Kg8
>>> +- (1.77) Depth: 4/8 00:00:00
>>>45...Qf5 46.g4 Qf3 47.Ra5
>>> +- (1.58) Depth: 4/8 00:00:00
>>>45...Qf5 46.g4 Qd7 47.Nc7 Rab8
>>> +- (1.66) Depth: 5/11 00:00:00
>>>45...Qf5 46.Nc7 Rxa2+ 47.Kxa2 Bxe3 48.Ba6 Rxc7 49.fxe3
>>> +- (1.90) Depth: 6/14 00:00:00 39kN
>>>45...Qf5 46.Nc7 Rc8 47.Ba6 Rcxc7 48.bxc7 Rxc7
>>> +- (2.51) Depth: 7/15 00:00:01 157kN
>>>45...Nf5 46.Nc7 Rab8 47.Ra7 Qxc7 48.bxc7 Rxa7+ 49.Kb2 Rxb3+ 50.Kxb3 Rxc7
>>> +- (2.48) Depth: 7/15 00:00:01 188kN
>>>45...Qc8 46.Nc7 Rxa2+ 47.Qxa2 Ne8 48.Nxe8 Qxe8 49.Ba6 Rb8
>>> +- (2.33) Depth: 7/15 00:00:02 217kN
>>>45...Ne8 46.Nb4 Rbb8 47.Rbb2 Rxa2+ 48.Rxa2 Qb7 49.Ra7
>>> +- (1.86) Depth: 7/15 00:00:02 265kN
>>>45...Ne8 46.Nb4 Rbb8 47.Rbb2 Kg8 48.Rxa8 Rxa8+ 49.Ra2 Rb8
>>> +- (2.15) Depth: 8/22 00:00:04 419kN
>>>45...Ne8 46.Nb4 Rbb8 47.Rba3 Rxa3 48.Rxa3 Nf6 49.Ra7 Rb7
>>> +- (2.32) Depth: 9/22 00:00:08 1123kN
>>>45...Ne8 46.Nb4 Rbb8 47.h4 Rxa2+ 48.Kxa2 Qb7 49.Ba6 Ra8 50.Ra3 Qb8
>>> +- (2.41) Depth: 10/23 00:00:16 2605kN
>>>45...Ne8 46.Nb4 Rbb8 47.h4 Kg8 48.Ba6 Nf5 49.Kb1 g6 50.Rab2 Bg7
>>> +- (2.46) Depth: 11/24 00:00:32 5642kN
>>>45...Ne8 46.Nb4 Rbb8 47.h4 Kg8 48.Rba3 Rxa3 49.Rxa3 Qb7 50.Ra7 Ra8 51.Rxa8 Qxa8+
>>> +- (2.48) Depth: 12/25 00:01:00 11240kN
>>>45...Ne8 46.Nb4 Rbb8 47.h4 Kg8 48.Rxa8 Rxa8+ 49.Ba6 Qc8 50.Ra3 Qd8 51.b7 Rb8
>>>52.Kb1
>>> +- (2.54) Depth: 13/26 00:01:54 22385kN
>>>
>>>(McCracken, None 17.11.2003)
>>>
>>>
>>>Congratulations Dr. Robert Hyatt!
>>>
>>>Also, Amir and Shay for being close...maybe Deep Junior 8 would have done
>>>better?...I can't test it.
>>>
>>>Terry
>>
>>Thanks, but I don't think it's deserved. I get only +0.30 on my notebook.
>>
>>If you ask me, +0.30 is better than +0.80 on move 14, because I don't see that
>>white is better.
>>
>>IIRC Crafty has asymetric evaluation and its eval from the white side will be
>>different.
>>
>>Why is it urgent to play f5 at move 15 ? What's wrong with 5 moves later ?
>>
>>Amir
>
>IMO White is clearly better, and was better throughout most of the game, by move
>14 I feel that Black had to fight for a draw. I doubt 15.f5! would have saved
>Black, but it was the best practical chance. Leaving it another 5 moves, gives
>White 5 moves to continue to improve and consolidate his position.
>
>Fritz had no chance in this setup....long term planning is above all programmes,
>even Crafty.
>
>I think Juniors style is top notch, and Rebel for that matter, but until enough
>knowledge and speed, and the right algorithms are created and perfected, long
>range planning will allude all computers.
>
>But I believe that day will come, when it all comes together, and in my
>lifetime.
>
>Chess programmes and I are about the same age, so I'm optimistic;-)
>But I'm not optimistic about my chances to beat them ever, by then:/
>
>Terry
I gave Rebel 5 minutes for this position, I liked the last main line as it
creates some play.
My best,
Ed
========================
00:00:26 13.02 -0.73 14..Ne8 15.Nxa5 Bg5 16.Be2 Bh6 17.Qb4
00:00:27 13.03 -0.71 14..Re8 15.Rb1 Nf8 16.Nxa5 Bf5 17.Qb4 Qc8
18.Be2 Qb8
00:00:44 14.00 -0.71 14..Re8 15.Rb1 Nf8 16.Nxa5 Bf5 17.Qb4 Qb8
18.Ne2 N6d7 19.Ng3 Bg6 20.Be2 Bh4 21.Nh5
00:01:22 15.00 -0.72 14..Re8 15.Rb1 Nf8 16.Nxa5 Bf5 17.Bb4 Qb8
00:03:25 16.00 -0.70 14..Re8 15.Rb1 Nf8 16.Nxa5 Bf5 17.Bb4 Qc8
18.Be2 Ng6 19.Qc2 Nh4 20.Rg1 Nd7 21.g3 Ng6
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