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Subject: Re: Doubling of thinking time, greater benefits for dedicated computers?

Author: Mike Byrne

Date: 16:41:53 11/20/03

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On November 20, 2003 at 18:57:24, J. C. Boco wrote:

>Doubling the processor speed or the time for thinking adds about 80 points to
>the SSDF-computer-ratings.  But PC's are already running so fast that doubling
>their speed might mean searching at 15ply instead of 14ply.

80 points  might be true for computer vs computer games - that will not be true
for human vs computer IMO.  For human  vs computer , on the current top end
machines , I say it would be less than 50.

I think for computer vs humans on the low end units (say rated 2000), doubling
might be worth about 75.

I am sure many people will diagree with me.



>
>But dedicated computers are reaching, what, about 6ply on a search.  If you
>double the speed (or time) for a dedicated machine it might mean a difference of
>7ply instead of 6ply.  It seems to me that this would be much more of an
>improvement.
>
>Is it fair to say that the 80points gains for doubling your speed is too low for
>dedicated computers?  I've been trying to come up with a logical (if
>conjectureable) scale of the Star Diamond's playing strength per level, and the
>number I've found useful is 150 points for each doubling.

I totally disagree - but that is what makes the world interesting.  Star Diamond
is about 3x faster than Saphire 2.  IMO, that may be worth about 100 points,  I
think the Sapphire 2 has about 2150 USCF strength.  I would put the Diamond at
2250 -- perhaps it could be 2300 - but then maybe Sapphire 2 is perhaps 2200.
One is for sure, the Star Diamond is currently the strongest unit available
today.  Only a few machine are potentially stronger - TASC R30/40, Genius 68030
etc.  I am not certain , perhaps SSDF could test the Star Diamond against these
older units.


>
>Just as a gross example of my little thought experiment (and I'm only doing this
>because I have to wait until monday to get my computer!).
>
>Let's say the Star Diamond is rated 2200 at 40/2.  2200 is just the number I'm
>using, since I'd like to think the $270 computer I just bought is a master.  If
>I assume that with a dedicated computer each doubling is worth 150 points
>(instead of 80) then I get, with some aestetic rounding:
>
>Average time per move        "Rating"
>
>3 minutes                    2200
>2 minutes                    2100
>1 minute                     1950
>30 seconds                   1700
>15 seconds                   1550
>10 seconds                   1450
>5 seconds                    1300
>2 seconds                    1150
>
>While this loosely follows the Log(speedup)/Log2  * 150, it seems to me the
>lower levels may be rated to low.  I mean, I would think the 5 seconds of
>thought for the latest dedicated computer would be stronger than mid-class D.
>
>If I used 100 per doubling then level *2 seconds* would be about 1500, which
>strikes me as being too high.
>
>Perhaps 125 per doubling is closest.  This would yield the lowest level a rating
>of 1325.  Hmmmm, yes I'm working it out as I'm writing.  Maybe 125 ELO per
>doubling is appropriate for dedicated chess computers.

To me, the math is not working - try 75 and work your way down.


3 minutes                    2200
2 minutes                    2150
1 minute                     2075
30 seconds                   2000
15 seconds                   1925
10 seconds                   1875
5 seconds                    1800
2 seconds                    1725

I think this is reasonable for  a dedicated unit rated @2200.


>
>Anyway, I'd be interested in the thoughts of others who most likely have thought
>more about these kinds of things, or are in a position to know.  Perhaps you've
>played this computer yourself?
>
>And what is the latest commonly accepted formula for converting the SSDF
>computer ratings to human USCF ratings?  Is it still to add 180?

Not since USCF took the Adult ratings down over  a hundred points ove the last
several years.  Perhaps add 50 - I would add "0".





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