Author: Eugene Nalimov
Date: 17:13:01 11/20/03
Go up one level in this thread
On November 20, 2003 at 18:44:18, martin fierz wrote: >On November 20, 2003 at 11:00:09, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On November 20, 2003 at 10:57:20, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On November 19, 2003 at 18:25:40, martin fierz wrote: >>>> >>>>sheesh! >>>> >>>>if anyone is missing a point here it's you! why don't you read the post >>>>completely before crying wolf? >>>> >>>>matthew suggested that holding a CC world championship without US participation >>>>is about like playing a human chess world championship without russians. >>>> >>>>that statement is totally wrong. there is simply not a single US program which >>>>is anywhere near the top of computer chess, period. >> >>That statement is _totally_ wrong. The WCCC is an "open hardware" event. >>If you take the top commercial programs running on a single CPU box, and >>Crafty running on a big Opteron box, I'd claim Crafty has at _least_ as good >>a chance of winning as any one-cpu program, and probably better chances. > >so? in what way does that make my statement wrong? . > >of course, if you give one of those american programs a huge hardware advantage, >then it has it's chance - that is pretty clear! > >if i ran my rather weak program on a box which is 1000x faster than yours you >would lose. does this make me proud? does this make my program better than >yours?? go figure... >i talked about *programs*. not about the combination of hardware+software. i >don't know why you do it, but you seem to deliberately misunderstand any >sentence i write ;-) > >cheers > martin Here is text I wrote 4 years ago: --------------------------------- Subject : Re: 9th WCCC99 . '' june 14 - 20 " Notable ausence. Posted by : Eugene Nalimov on June 03, 1999 at 14:29:21 Ok, let's be fair. Let's imagine the situation where orgnizers will give every participant quad Alpha 21264. Fair? After that some participants will refuse to play - "our program will not run there, because it's written in x86 assembly, or don't use more than one CPU, or don't tuned for such a speed, or...". My guess is that exactly the same people that say "it's unfair when the hardware is different" will say "Ok, but best commercial programs did not play, so winner is not World Champion". Or Fritz representative will say "Ok, I cannot run on your Alpha, so let me bring my x86 machine - I want to participate, even with disadvantage". What to do now? So, organizers decided to stay with x86, and will give each participants quad Xeon. Nevertheless, some participants will say "our program will not exploit four CPUs", so again there will be no fair play. And there will be chess program for a Sony Playstation, or Nintendo, of specialized chess board. And then there will be (crazy) person who wrote his program in PPC assembly for Mac. Why ban those program? Ok, let's ban them, and give single-CPU x86 to everybody. What now? Some will say "we spent a lot of time debugging parallel search instead of rewriting our program in x86 assembly, or we deliberately left our program in C, so it can be portable, and worked on other aspects of engine. Others wrote their program in x86 assembly. Now, why our hard work is not honored? We have a disadvantage". So, organizers decided to allow any micro, but not "big iron". After that somebody will say "they brought 32-CPUs Alpha, and it actually costs more than our System/3090 in minimal configuration. And their nps is higher. Why we are not allowed?". More, somebody will come with specialized chess chip, and he will say "it really costs less than even quad Alpha that is provided by the organizers". So, it looks that there will be unhappy people in any situation. With the current rules there is clear distinction - there is WCCC, WMCCC, and some time ago there was "equal hardware championship". Unfortunately, due to lack of financing (or maybe due to lack of qualified organizers, because old ones became tired, and next generation can only criticize) this year tournirs are "combined". IMHO, it's better to have not ideal solution than to have no solution at all. And if x86 commercial program will lose to some hardware monster, they at least can say "we have a hardware disadvantage", so in a sense everybody will be happy. Eugene
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