Author: Uri Blass
Date: 03:59:21 11/21/03
Go up one level in this thread
On November 20, 2003 at 23:23:16, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On November 20, 2003 at 14:23:10, Amir Ban wrote: > >>On November 20, 2003 at 08:59:25, Matthew Hull wrote: >> >>>On November 20, 2003 at 06:57:30, Amir Ban wrote: >>> >>>>On November 19, 2003 at 18:12:12, Matthew Hull wrote: >>>> >>>>>On November 19, 2003 at 17:30:36, Amir Ban wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On November 19, 2003 at 12:02:56, Matthew Hull wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On November 19, 2003 at 11:51:59, martin fierz wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On November 19, 2003 at 11:34:17, Matthew Hull wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On November 19, 2003 at 11:30:37, martin fierz wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On November 19, 2003 at 11:06:21, Matthew Hull wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>On November 19, 2003 at 10:55:26, martin fierz wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>On November 19, 2003 at 10:31:54, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>here. Makes a _lot_ of sense. And it shows just how "world" aware the >>>>>>>>>>>>>ICCA actually is. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>i don't really want to be involved in this thread, but i can't resist this >>>>>>>>>>>>one... >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>disclaimer: of course it would be much more sensible to have the championship in >>>>>>>>>>>>the US from time to time. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>cheapo: so the ICCA does something which is not good for *one* country >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>That's one cheapo that doesn't work. It would be like 2000 years ago holding >>>>>>>>>>>gladiator events that discommode only one country, Rome. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>MH >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>of course it works, and you just invite the next follow up cheapo ;-) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>2000 years ago the romans were perhaps not aware that there was much more to the >>>>>>>>>>world than rome. sometimes one gets the feeling that the US citizens are no >>>>>>>>>>different in this respect... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Ok, how about holding a world chess championship that only inconviences >>>>>>>>>Russians. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I think you get the idea. :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>MH >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>of course i get the idea! i put a disclaimer on my first post stating clearly >>>>>>>>that IMO the championship should be held in the US from time to time, and i >>>>>>>>labelled my posts as cheapos :-) >>>>>>>>i thought that made it clear enough... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>going back to your comparison with the russians: exactly how many american >>>>>>>>programs are in the top 10 of the SSDF list? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>The SSDF list only uses consumer-grade technology to test programs. Programs >>>>>>>tuned to that limited technology will always top that list. That is why the >>>>>>>list is of limited importance. A real WCCC is going to attract high performance >>>>>>>projects, not just consumer oriented projects. This is what the New World has >>>>>>>always offered. But, Old Worlders have a problem with that I guess. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Do any such New World high performance projects exist ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Crafty can be such a project on practically a moment's notice (I believe). >>>>>Other programs are similiarly suited. If the WCCC comes to North America, the >>>>>projects will materialize. This was the benefit of limiting the event to every >>>>>three years and making it a practical event, length-wise. It provided time for >>>>>the husbanding of resources, planning, development and sponsorship along with a >>>>>relative rarity that made the event that much more important and compelling (and >>>>>thus an easier sell to the people with the expensive resources). >>>>> >>>>>The current cycle with it's awkward timing and extended length, along with it's >>>>>persistent location in Europe (not to mention its archaic modus operendi) seems >>>>>calculated to favor European commercial interests while excluding projects from >>>>>North America. >>>>> >>>>>Perhaps it is the punishment Europeans are determined to mete out to us for the >>>>>DB2 triumph, which seems to be universally reviled overseas. EU types are maybe >>>>>fed up with the dominance of North American, high-end computer chess projects. >>>>> >>>> >>>>There's nothing to be fed up with, since the dominance is long gone. >>> >>>Yes, the ICGA have seen to that by keeping the WCCC out of North America and >>>making inconvenient for North Americans to participate. Nicely done, IMO. >>> >>>>Hong Kong >>>>1995 was the swansong. There were 4 of them there, but losing to Fritz, and even >>>>before that, in 1992, to Schroeder, underscored that they have lost their >>>>advantage and so their reason in life. >>> >>> >>>That is a not entirely unreasonable opinion, though still incorrect, IMO. Bob >>>addressed the competitive issue in another thread here. There are American >>>programs suited to high performance hardware which would have a definite >>>advantage, even over your project. Yes? >>> >> >>Sure. There are tens if not hundreds of Americans who would make me look silly >>with multi-million $ projects and $10 million hardware. The only thing holding >>them back is that they can't afford to go to Europe. >> >>It has been tested once in a Rebel vs. Crafty match where Crafty was given a 100 >>to 1 time advantage. The match was aborted after Rebel won the first game. >> > >How about doing a couple of things: > >(1) tell the entire story. (a) one game doesn't mean _anything_. (b) Ed >played multiple games with crafty and rebel having a _very_ long time for >each move. Crafty won. Does that prove anything? Nope, other than the >one handicap game was meaningless. > >(2) I'll be _happy_ to take you on at 100:1 time odds, anything you think >you are ready. I'll even put up a wager to make it interesting. I am >talking about a match of at least 10 games. Interested? You'd be >stupid if you were. Because I wouldn't play _any_ program at that time >handicap, including the original Sargon... I think that it dependent on the time control. If the better program use 1 second per move against 100 seconds of the weaker program(no pondering) then I expect the better program to lose in these cases. If the better program is using 300 seconds per move against 30000 seconds per move(no pondering) then I expect Crafty to beat sargon and the match between Crafty and Junior may be more interesting. Uri
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