Author: Peter Kappler
Date: 22:01:35 11/21/03
Go up one level in this thread
On November 21, 2003 at 22:03:53, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On November 21, 2003 at 19:11:41, Will Singleton wrote: > >>On November 21, 2003 at 18:24:42, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On November 21, 2003 at 18:05:55, Joachim Rang wrote: >>> >>>>On November 21, 2003 at 16:47:52, Peter Berger wrote: >>>> >>>>>Following recent heated discussions I'd love to do a little testmatch. There are >>>>>different versions of the challenge online - I chose one that I can kind of >>>>>simulate myself with slower hardware. >>>>> >>>>>Junior 8.0.0.2 will play on a P233MMX, 32 MB RAM. >>>>>Crafty 19.4 will play on a PIV2.0GHz notebook, 1GHz RAM. >>>>> >>>>>Time control will be game in 2 hours with 10 seconds increment/move. The match >>>>>will be done like older FIDE world championship matches - the first one to win 6 >>>>>games wins the match, draws won't count. >>>>> >>>>>Junior uses 16MB Hash, 3+4 men tablebases, 1MB cache, junior8.ctg. >>>>>Crafty uses 384MB Hash, 64MB hashp, 3+4 men tablebases, 32MB cache, own book, >>>>>aware of playing a computer. >>>>> >>>>>Compairing setups with Crafty bench (hash 12M, hashp 3M, cache 1M on the slower >>>>>one) suggests a speed difference factor of about 10.5 in raw nodes per seconds >>>>>and 11.0 in "SMP time to-ply-measurement" between the two computers. >>>>>As the Junior Mark doesn't work on the slower one and Junior chooses to search >>>>>different depths on both in the starting position, I can't really give a number. >>>>>The difference seems to be slightly lower for Junior though, sth like 9.0 maybe. >>>>> >>>>>Saying that the faster computer is about 10 times faster shouldn't be too wrong. >>>>> >>>>>That's also clearly an upper-bound for faster hardware Crafty could reasonably >>>>>come up to compete with against a single-CPU opponent in a current competition >>>>>on fast computers IMHO - the speedup demands 16 CPUs I guess, and I don't know >>>>>if Crafty can really scale that well. >>>>> >>>>>With this setup Crafty should be the clear favourite I suppose. >>>>> >>>>>Crafty won the toss and will have the white pieces in the first game. >>>>> >>>>>Peter >>>> >>>> >>>>nice test indeed. I think crafty will win. >>>> >>>>regards Joachim >>> >>>If it loses I should obviously retire from computer chess due to gross >>>incompetence. >> >>You already have two people (above) who think Junior has a chance to win, so I >>suppose you should at least start checking the social security balance. Me, I >>think Crafty will win easily, perhaps 6-0 (not counting draws). >> >>Will > >I'd expect 5-1 or 6-0 at 10:1 time odds, discounting quite a few draws >that are expected... > >As for who thinks that a 10:1 time odds is not enough, I suspect they have >not "gotten dirty" by writing something that is serious. 10:1 is quite a >bonus. 100:1 is even better... > >If I couldn't win at 10:1 it would be time to hang it up, IMHO, no matter >how much or little time I get to spend on it... > When did the time odds change from 100x to 10x? The SSDF rating list shows Junior ahead by 25 ELO even when Crafty runs on a machine that is 4x faster. Junior 7.0 128MB K6-2 450 MHz 2639 Crafty 18.12/CB 256MB Athlon 1200 MHz 2615 (My Athlon 1400 is 4.5x faster than my K6-3/450, so I think 4x is about right for the two machines above.) The same rating list shows that Junior 8.0 is 100 pts stronger than Junior 7. I don't know how much progress Crafty has made since version 18.12, but I would guess that it's less than 100 pts. You'll also likely be facing Junior's tournament opening book - potentially a huge advantage for Junior. Add it all up, and it seems like this could be a tough match even at 10x. -Peter
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