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Subject: Re: Here we go again...

Author: Hannu Wegner

Date: 00:50:12 11/15/98

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On November 15, 1998 at 02:45:54, Ed Schröder wrote:

>>Posted by Thorsten Czub on November 14, 1998 at 19:07:55:
>
>>>>Others (who have also bought junior5) have found out the same.
>
>>fact, these persons have posted here.
>
>>>>Ed claimed the same very early.
>
>>fact too. ed said that the fritz5 autoplayer stops rebel from learning, posted
>>in old discussions months ago.
>>i have not said that you claimed something about the junior autoplayer ed.
>>i said you claimed the same, meaning you said that rebels learning was not
>>working in your observation months before. but anybody oversaw this.
>
>
>>>I claimed nothing. Junior5 even hasn't been installed on my autoplayers
>>>so I can't know.
>
>>i have not said you claimed about junior. junior is only an engine in the fritz5
>>user interface. what happens to junior might have also happened to the secret
>>chessbase fritz5 autoplayer. and you proofed this autoplayer, or ?
>>you had a log-file of the data send from ONE to Other machine, or ?
>>And there was nothing in the data. all clean. only that rebel was unable to
>>learn. or ? I remember that this was said months ago.
>
>
>You have your facts completely wrong Thorsten.
>
>Let me summarize....
>
>#1. There were 3 people who had the F5 autoplayer (F5A) and they
>sometimes passed information about the thing here in CCC.
>
>#2. One of them said: "F5A does not save opponent games".
>
>#3. I then reacted:
>
>a) This is horrible, it might influence the learner of opponents programs.
>I was talking about ALL programs.
>
>b) I also said: I can't proof if this is the case for my OWN creation Rebel
>because the F5A is not public.
>
>c) I also said: I have looked at the Rebel code and it is unlikely there is
>harm done to Rebel's learner but I can't exclude the possibility. After all
>the F5A is hidden from me and it is against the auto232 protocol not to
>save the game. The game should be there but the Rebel driver is
>overruled by the F5A driver and this is unacceptable.
>
>What I wrote was a complaint against "hidden" autoplayers and all the
>possible negative side effects because of that.
>
>Until this day I am not able to say if harm is done or not.
>
>I NEVER said the F5A prevents Rebel from learning. I have no proof of
>that and I don't think it's fair of you to translate a "possibility"
>into a "fact" and make it a main item here.
>
>You have argued against the F5A. It wasn't available. Now you argue
>against the J5A. It *IS* available. You now have the possibility to PROOF
>your theory with examples. Sofar I have seen NONE. Only the same
>accusations PRESENTED as proof but no real evidence.
>
>Why don't you just stop with your accusations, find the evidence
>first and THEN report here.
>
>You are allowed to quote my public sayings but not to change them
>to your own convenience. You will not be able to find a statement of
>me where I said: "The F5A prevents Rebel from learning" because
>I never said that.
>
>- Ed -
>
>PS, about AUTO232....
>
>AUTO232 is a fragile piece of software. As a result of that (and
>you must know that very well) programs tend to crash all the time.
>Through the years I have seen dozen and dozen examples all
>programs crash in good positions and bad positions. There is
>no pattern. It's completely random.
>
>Meaning to say, to proof your theory you have to come up with
>some very convincing examples.
>
>PS2, I posted this as a new chapter so on top on CCC because I
>have seen you have spread your untrue sayings about me all over
>CCC.


Hi Ed,

It is good to see, that you want to discuss the autoplayerproblem in a
constructve way! Allways when I see mails from Thosten Czub the toppics about
ChessBase-products the writes about them in a destructive way. Best would be to
give ChessBase more "test-reports" because they are obviosly not able to write a
correct working autoplayer without help. But you can also see that they are
willing to publish Fritz 5-autoplayer.

Best greetings,
Hannu Wegner






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