Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 15:27:23 11/24/03
Go up one level in this thread
On November 24, 2003 at 17:36:44, Joachim Rang wrote: >On November 24, 2003 at 17:31:21, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On November 24, 2003 at 16:31:32, Joachim Rang wrote: >> >>>On November 24, 2003 at 16:25:46, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On November 24, 2003 at 16:19:20, Slater Wold wrote: >>>> >>>>>On November 24, 2003 at 16:14:12, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On November 24, 2003 at 15:05:53, Pete Rihaczek wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>I for one am very excited to see Brutus in the lead. This is an exciting advance >>>>>>>in chess computing and FPGA computing in general. With the ability to add >>>>>>>knowledge without the usual penalty, some version of this is the odds-on >>>>>>>favorite to be the world's strongest chess machine. Such a system was a logical >>>>>>>step after Deep Blue II had shown the advantages of computing in hardware. Can a >>>>>>>Kasparov-Brutus match be far away? Well done Dr. Donninger! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>I don't think it is _that_ revolutionary. IE a single FPGA board and >>>>>>computer together search about 2.5M nodes per second, according to comments >>>>>>by them when we have played a few skittles games on ICC. A dual-CPU opteron >>>>>>is faster than that, as a reference point. >>>>> >>>>>Bob, Bob, Bob... >>>>> >>>>>A PC can get 2.5M nps, sure. But with what program? HIARCS? >>>>> >>>>>A FPGA can get 2.5M nps, and then you can stuff 100,000 lines of chess knowledge >>>>>in it, and still get 2.5M nps. That's a big difference. >>>> >>>>The problem is this. While you are "stuffing those 100,000 lines of chess >>>>knowledge in it" the PCs are _still_ getting faster. The FPGAs are simply >>>>not _that_ fast. See my comparison with Belle and Deep Thought. Those >>>>represented _quantum_ leaps in performance. The FPGA does not, yet, if it >>>>ever will. >>>> >>> >>>I think that the current FPGA which runs with 33MHz can be easily accellerated, >>>maybe even more than Processors. >>> >>>regards Joachim >> >>Problem is it has to run on the PCI bus. That's a limiting factor. > >But there will be PCI-X, with increased Speed. > >regards Joachim Compare PCI-X to the speed of the current processors. :) >> >> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>>yes, I know that he is running with four machines, two FPGA cards per machine >>>>>>in Graz. But then again, 8-way opterons are around as well. I'm hardly >>>>>>"anti-hardware" but the benefits to using hardware normally far-surpass >>>>>>readily available general-purpose computers. IE belle did 160K when the >>>>>>fastest competitor was 20K (Cray Blitz). Deep thought went to 1.5M when we >>>>>>were at 200K with the fastest hardware Cray had at the time. The FPGA >>>>>>approach doesn't have that significant speed advantage. IE a single card >>>>>>at 2.5 M nodes per second is within reach of a single processor machine >>>>>>today...
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