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Subject: Re: Go Brutus!!

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 15:27:23 11/24/03

Go up one level in this thread


On November 24, 2003 at 17:36:44, Joachim Rang wrote:

>On November 24, 2003 at 17:31:21, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On November 24, 2003 at 16:31:32, Joachim Rang wrote:
>>
>>>On November 24, 2003 at 16:25:46, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On November 24, 2003 at 16:19:20, Slater Wold wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On November 24, 2003 at 16:14:12, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On November 24, 2003 at 15:05:53, Pete Rihaczek wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I for one am very excited to see Brutus in the lead. This is an exciting advance
>>>>>>>in chess computing and FPGA computing in general. With the ability to add
>>>>>>>knowledge without the usual penalty, some version of this is the odds-on
>>>>>>>favorite to be the world's strongest chess machine. Such a system was a logical
>>>>>>>step after Deep Blue II had shown the advantages of computing in hardware. Can a
>>>>>>>Kasparov-Brutus match be far away? Well done Dr. Donninger!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I don't think it is _that_ revolutionary.  IE a single FPGA board and
>>>>>>computer together search about 2.5M nodes per second, according to comments
>>>>>>by them when we have played a few skittles games on ICC.  A dual-CPU opteron
>>>>>>is faster than that, as a reference point.
>>>>>
>>>>>Bob, Bob, Bob...
>>>>>
>>>>>A PC can get 2.5M nps, sure.  But with what program?  HIARCS?
>>>>>
>>>>>A FPGA can get 2.5M nps, and then you can stuff 100,000 lines of chess knowledge
>>>>>in it, and still get 2.5M nps.  That's a big difference.
>>>>
>>>>The problem is this.  While you are "stuffing those 100,000 lines of chess
>>>>knowledge in it" the PCs are _still_ getting faster.  The FPGAs are simply
>>>>not _that_ fast.  See my comparison with Belle and Deep Thought.  Those
>>>>represented _quantum_ leaps in performance.  The FPGA does not, yet, if it
>>>>ever will.
>>>>
>>>
>>>I think that the current FPGA which runs with 33MHz can be easily accellerated,
>>>maybe even more than Processors.
>>>
>>>regards Joachim
>>
>>Problem is it has to run on the PCI bus.  That's a limiting factor.
>
>But there will be PCI-X, with increased Speed.
>
>regards Joachim

Compare PCI-X to the speed of the current processors.  :)


>>
>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>yes, I know that he is running with four machines, two FPGA cards per machine
>>>>>>in Graz.  But then again, 8-way opterons are around as well.  I'm hardly
>>>>>>"anti-hardware" but the benefits to using hardware normally far-surpass
>>>>>>readily available general-purpose computers.  IE belle did 160K when the
>>>>>>fastest competitor was 20K (Cray Blitz).  Deep thought went to 1.5M when we
>>>>>>were at 200K with the fastest hardware Cray had at the time.  The FPGA
>>>>>>approach doesn't have that significant speed advantage.  IE a single card
>>>>>>at 2.5 M nodes per second is within reach of a single processor machine
>>>>>>today...



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