Author: Terry McCracken
Date: 08:39:00 11/27/03
Go up one level in this thread
On November 27, 2003 at 11:05:39, Bob Durrett wrote: >On November 27, 2003 at 10:27:53, Terry McCracken wrote: > >>On November 27, 2003 at 09:24:35, Bob Durrett wrote: >> >>>On November 27, 2003 at 08:37:47, stuart taylor wrote: >>> >>>>On November 27, 2003 at 08:25:42, Terry McCracken wrote: >>>> >>>>>On November 27, 2003 at 04:36:20, ALI MIRAFZALI wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On November 27, 2003 at 03:06:02, Kurt Utzinger wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On November 27, 2003 at 02:59:36, Gerald Wright wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>The Top players in the computer chess championship are all capable of drawing or >>>>>>>>winning a match vs Kasparov or them in the top 10. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As long as 2200 ELO players can get a lot of draws >>>>>>> with safe and boring playing style the best comp >>>>>>> programs do not have more than 2400 Elo. >>>>>>> Kurt >>>>>>What you are saying Kurt does not make sense at all.A 2400 elo player could >>>>>>not draw Kasaprov under any circumstances.Please check the definition of ELO. >>>>>>Also your claim of 2200 Elo players getting draws is Contrary to my own private >>>>>>testing of many many games against 2200 Elo players. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Playing computers are _not_ the same as playing Kasparov or _humans_ whatsoever. >>>>>It is often easy to draw machines as Kurt suggests, winning is far more >>>>>difficult, unless of course you obtain a large "book" advantage, with the White >>>>>pieces. >>>>> >>>>>I've have found different ways to neuter computers, and so have many here who >>>>>buy programmes to play against. It's still even quite possible to bring them >>>>>down with carefully played K-Side attacks. By the time the comp sees it, it's >>>>>too late. >>>> >>>> >>>>In MY experience, it's not enough to do something before the computer realizes >>>>it, but that it is VERY CAREFULLY played and worked out, also! >>>> I've often got into positions where I think there could be a brilliant winning >>>>attack esp. kingside, but don't know exactly which one way will do it, if there >>>>IS one way. >>>>I often try, but it's usually not that one way, or at any rate, atleast one of >>>>the moves I make is not according to it. >>>>S.Taylor >>> >>>There is a way to produce a score sheet, of a game with a chess engine, where >>>the human wins. Simply play a game. Then go back to the first mistake and make >>>another move. Repeat this process as many times as is necessary to get the >>>desired result. This may not work every time, but it should improve the odds in >>>favor of the Human. Of course, when you publish the scoresheet, it's best to >>>conveniently forget to mention the take-backs. : ) >>> >>>Although this procedure may look bogus and like "cheating," it may be a good way >>>to find the weaknesses in the chess-playing program. The final scoresheet >>>should be useful to the engine programmer [and maybe to the opening book maker.] >>> I advocate doing this for the sake of improving chess engines. >>> >>>Bob D. >>> >>>Bob D. >> >>Suggesting I'm cheating, even in fun, isn't funny! >> >>Edward, myself, and many others have beaten these beasts without cheating or >>takebacks. > >That is truly wonderful, Terry. I wish I could say that, although I have not >even tried. I'm sure that the engine programmers would love to get their hands >on your wins against their programs. In fact, you could really "do good" by >identifying the key positions in those games, where the program went astray, and >then post those positions here for the various CCC programmers to look at. >People here are constantly posting positions which present unexpected problems >for the engines. In fact, I have one ready to post as soon as all this WCCC >excitement dies down. > >Best wishes, > >Bob D. > >> >>I can't help it if many CC Fans _can't_ play chess for the life of them. >>Maybe that's why they buy programmes and ooohhh and aaahhh while watching >>engines play the game! >> >>Other just use them to cheat against players like me at ICC and other chess >>servers, to try and embarrass people who _actually_ play the damn game!! Actually I have posted a few, and sometimes the programmers take notice. Terry
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