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Subject: Re: Is it safe to say then that Computers today play 2800 level chess?

Author: Terry McCracken

Date: 08:39:00 11/27/03

Go up one level in this thread


On November 27, 2003 at 11:05:39, Bob Durrett wrote:

>On November 27, 2003 at 10:27:53, Terry McCracken wrote:
>
>>On November 27, 2003 at 09:24:35, Bob Durrett wrote:
>>
>>>On November 27, 2003 at 08:37:47, stuart taylor wrote:
>>>
>>>>On November 27, 2003 at 08:25:42, Terry McCracken wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On November 27, 2003 at 04:36:20, ALI MIRAFZALI wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On November 27, 2003 at 03:06:02, Kurt Utzinger wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On November 27, 2003 at 02:59:36, Gerald Wright wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The Top players in the computer chess championship are all capable of drawing or
>>>>>>>>winning a match vs Kasparov or them in the top 10.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     As long as 2200 ELO players can get a lot of draws
>>>>>>>     with safe and boring playing style the best comp
>>>>>>>     programs do not have more than 2400 Elo.
>>>>>>>     Kurt
>>>>>>What you are saying Kurt does not make sense at all.A 2400 elo player could
>>>>>>not draw Kasaprov under any circumstances.Please check the definition of ELO.
>>>>>>Also your claim of 2200 Elo players getting draws is Contrary to my own private
>>>>>>testing of many many games against 2200 Elo players.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Playing computers are _not_ the same as playing Kasparov or _humans_ whatsoever.
>>>>>It is often easy to draw machines as Kurt suggests, winning is far more
>>>>>difficult, unless of course you obtain a large "book" advantage, with the White
>>>>>pieces.
>>>>>
>>>>>I've have found different ways to neuter computers, and so have many here who
>>>>>buy programmes to play against. It's still even quite possible to bring them
>>>>>down with carefully played K-Side attacks. By the time the comp sees it, it's
>>>>>too late.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>In MY experience, it's not enough to do something before the computer realizes
>>>>it, but that it is VERY CAREFULLY played and worked out, also!
>>>> I've often got into positions where I think there could be a brilliant winning
>>>>attack esp. kingside, but don't know exactly which one way will do it, if there
>>>>IS one way.
>>>>I often try, but it's usually not that one way, or at any rate, atleast one of
>>>>the moves I make is not according to it.
>>>>S.Taylor
>>>
>>>There is a way to produce a score sheet, of a game with a chess engine, where
>>>the human wins.  Simply play a game.  Then go back to the first mistake and make
>>>another move.  Repeat this process as many times as is necessary to get the
>>>desired result.  This may not work every time, but it should improve the odds in
>>>favor of the Human.  Of course, when you publish the scoresheet, it's best to
>>>conveniently forget to mention the take-backs.  : )
>>>
>>>Although this procedure may look bogus and like "cheating," it may be a good way
>>>to find the weaknesses in the chess-playing program.  The final scoresheet
>>>should be useful to the engine programmer [and maybe to the opening book maker.]
>>> I advocate doing this for the sake of improving chess engines.
>>>
>>>Bob D.
>>>
>>>Bob D.
>>
>>Suggesting I'm cheating, even in fun, isn't funny!
>>
>>Edward, myself, and many others have beaten these beasts without cheating or
>>takebacks.
>
>That is truly wonderful, Terry.  I wish I could say that, although I have not
>even tried.  I'm sure that the engine programmers would love to get their hands
>on your wins against their programs.  In fact, you could really "do good" by
>identifying the key positions in those games, where the program went astray, and
>then post those positions here for the various CCC programmers to look at.
>People here are constantly posting positions which present unexpected problems
>for the engines.  In fact, I have one ready to post as soon as all this WCCC
>excitement dies down.
>
>Best wishes,
>
>Bob D.
>
>>
>>I can't help it if many CC Fans _can't_ play chess for the life of them.
>>Maybe that's why they buy programmes and ooohhh and aaahhh while watching
>>engines play the game!
>>
>>Other just use them to cheat against players like me at ICC and other chess
>>servers, to try and embarrass people who _actually_ play the damn game!!

Actually I have posted a few, and sometimes the programmers take notice.

Terry



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