Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 13:20:12 11/28/03
Go up one level in this thread
On November 28, 2003 at 16:13:27, Peter Berger wrote:
>For information about setup and rules:
>http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?329237 (archived already, I'll
>repost)
>
>One of those games that allows strong but wrong conclusions :). A very drawish
>opening, evals swinging around the 0.00 point.
>
>After longish analysis it turns out that
>
>Junior 8.0.0.2 - Crafty 19.4
>[D]6k1/6p1/p3p2p/1p6/4PP2/P3p3/1PK4P/8 b - - 0 1 bm e5
>
>38. ...e5 is a forced win for black, thus 38. f4?? the losing mistake. Tough for
>some strong engines to find, but not too tough.
>
>The interesting moment is move 35 of course.
>
>Junior 8.0.0.2 - Crafty 19.4
>[D]6k1/6p1/p3p2p/1p1n4/4Pp2/P2K1P2/1PRB2rP/8 b - - 0 1
>
>What's the verdict on 35... Ne3? - Knowing the above it's a very nice try, in a
>slightly different position it could also be called dubious I suppose ;).
>
>But I think it's fair to say that Junior has some problems evaluating the remote
>passer in the resulting pawn endgame - let's look at move 42.
>
>Junior 8.0.0.2 - Crafty 19.4
>[D]8/6p1/p6p/1p2k3/4P2P/P3K3/1P6/8 b - - 0 1
>
>Junior judges this -0.32 at depth 28, while it's already very easy to understand
>for a humble human that white is toast.
"distant majority" code. I have specific code for this case, it is a
precursor to "distant passer" of course.
>
>
>Some general remark about one feature of the games so far: Crafty just plays too
>fast. Very long games show that both use all their time. But: until move 45
>Junior usually uses 1.5-2.0 * more time than Crafty.
>Of course this gives Crafty the chance to have some deep thought on some move 86
>or 91, but usually those don't matter that much. That's a nice performance boost
>(relatively) for Junior in the important stages of the game IMHO.
It might help in the endgame, but it doesn't in the middlegame.
How are you setting the time control? IE through xboard? Or through
the .craftyrc or what? I generally don't see it having way more time
than the opponent as you describe...
It would be interesting to see if either you have a bad setup issue, or
I have a time allocation bug, or something in between?
>
>OK, enough talks for today :).
>
>(all comments without any warranty at all of course)
>
>Standing: Junior 2 - Crafty 3 ( 3 draws)
>
>Peter
>
>Uli Tuerke's conversion tool has problems to deal with the mate evals of the
>Fritz-GUI using tablebases, so this one is not complete:
>
>[Event "Blitz:120'+10""]
>[Site "Berlin"]
>[Date "2003.11.28"]
>[Round "8"]
>[White "Junior 8.0.0.2"]
>[Black "Crafty 19.4"]
>[Result "0-1"]
>[ECO "D27"]
>[Annotator "P233-PIV2.0GHz"]
>[PlyCount "134"]
>[TimeControl "7200+10"]
>
>{16MB, Junior8.ctg, P233MMX
>} 1. d4 {1} d5 {6} 2. c4{0} dxc4 {(c6) 3} 3. Nf3 {0} a6 {(Sf6) 4} 4. e3 {0}
>Nf6 {4} 5. Bxc4 {0} e6 {4} 6. O-O {0} c5 {4}7. Bb3 {0} Nc6 {(b5) 3}
>8. Nc3 {0} Be7 {(cxd4) 4} 9. dxc5 {0} Qxd1 {3} 10. Rxd1{0} Bxc5 {4}
>11. Bd2 {0} Bd7 {4} 12. Rac1 {0} Ba7 {4} 13. Be1 {0} O-O {(Ke7) 264}
>14. Na4 {0.43 955} Rfd8 {281} 15. Nc5 {0.41 0} Bxc5 {198} 16. Rxc5 {0.44 28}
>h6 {(Tac8) 203} 17. Bc2 {0.38 229} Rac8 {(b6) 200} 18. a3 {0.24 653}
>Na5 {(Se7) 193} 19. Rxc8 {0.07 200} Rxc8 {5} 20. Bb1 {0.08 273} Ba4 {188}
>21. Rd4 {0.04 108} Bb5 {(Ld7) 184} 22. Rd2 {0.03 163} Rc1 {(Kf8) 178}
>23. Rd8+ {-0.16 145} Ne8 {49} 24. Bd3 {-0.18 82} Bxd3 {85}
>25. Rxd3 {-0.10 223} Rb1 {(Sc6) 19} 26. Kf1 {-0.10 94} Nc4 {(Sc6) 76}
>27. Nd2 {0.17 153} Nxd2+ {10} 28. Rxd2 {0.18 66} Nf6 {102} 29. Ke2 {0.16 69}
>b5 {(Kh7) 127} 30. Rc2 {0.21 286} Nd5 {(Kh7) 22} 31. Ba5 {0.13 116}
>f5 {(Kh7) 42} 32. f3 {0.05 110} Rg1 {186} 33. Kd3 {0.12 0} f4 {(Kh7) 152}
>34. Bd2 {-0.05 228} Rxg2 {8} 35. e4 {0.00 74} Ne3 {(Se7) 75}
>36. Bxe3 {0.19 149} Rxc2 {4} 37. Kxc2 {0.00 77} fxe3 {71} 38. f4 {-0.10 10}
>e5 {150} 39. fxe5 {-0.16 0} Kf7 {143} 40. h4 {-0.41 36} Ke6 {142}
>41. Kd3 {-0.40 0} Kxe5 {134} 42. Kxe3 {-0.31 0} g5 {130} 43. hxg5 {-0.63 0}
>hxg5 {132} 44. Kf3 {-0.79 0} g4+ {(a5) 128} 45. Ke3 {-3.37 152} a5 {(g3) 91}
>46. b3 {-3.37 728} g3 {(b4) 124}
>47. b4
>
>see the ChessBase PGN for the rest of the game.
>
>
>And the ChessBase-PGN version:
>
>[Event "Blitz:120'+10""]
>[Site "Berlin"]
>[Date "2003.11.28"]
>[Round "8"]
>[White "Junior 8.0.0.2"]
>[Black "Crafty 19.4"]
>[Result "0-1"]
>[ECO "D27"]
>[Annotator "P233-PIV2.0GHz"]
>[PlyCount "134"]
>[TimeControl "7200+10"]
>
>{16MB, Junior8.ctg, P233MMX
>} 1. d4 {[%emt 0:00:01]} d5 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 2. c4
>{[%emt 0:00:00]} dxc4 {(c6) [%emt 0:00:03]} 3. Nf3 {[%emt 0:00:00]} a6 {
>(Sf6) [%emt 0:00:04]} 4. e3 {[%emt 0:00:00]} Nf6 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 5. Bxc4 {
>[%emt 0:00:00]} e6 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 6. O-O {[%emt 0:00:00]} c5 {[%emt 0:00:04]}
>7. Bb3 {[%emt 0:00:00]} Nc6 {(b5) [%emt 0:00:03]} 8. Nc3 {[%emt 0:00:00]} Be7 {
>(cxd4) [%emt 0:00:04]} 9. dxc5 {[%emt 0:00:00]} Qxd1 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 10. Rxd1
>{[%emt 0:00:00]} Bxc5 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 11. Bd2 {[%emt 0:00:00]} Bd7 {
>[%emt 0:00:04]} 12. Rac1 {[%emt 0:00:00]} Ba7 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 13. Be1 {
>[%emt 0:00:00]} O-O {(Ke7) [%emt 0:04:24]} 14. Na4 {
>[%eval 43,17] [%emt 0:15:55]} Rfd8 {[%emt 0:04:41]} 15. Nc5 {
>[%eval 41,18] [%emt 0:00:00]} Bxc5 {[%emt 0:03:18]} 16. Rxc5 {
>[%eval 44,17] [%emt 0:00:28]} h6 {(Tac8) [%emt 0:03:23]} 17. Bc2 {
>[%eval 38,17] [%emt 0:03:49]} Rac8 {(b6) [%emt 0:03:20]} 18. a3 {
>[%eval 24,17] [%emt 0:10:53]} Na5 {(Se7) [%emt 0:03:13]} 19. Rxc8 {
>[%eval 7,15] [%emt 0:03:20]} Rxc8 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 20. Bb1 {
>[%eval 8,16] [%emt 0:04:33]} Ba4 {[%emt 0:03:08]} 21. Rd4 {
>[%eval 4,16] [%emt 0:01:48]} Bb5 {(Ld7) [%emt 0:03:04]} 22. Rd2 {
>[%eval 3,15] [%emt 0:02:43]} Rc1 {(Kf8) [%emt 0:02:58]} 23. Rd8+ {
>[%eval -16,16] [%emt 0:02:25]} Ne8 {[%emt 0:00:49]} 24. Bd3 {
>[%eval -18,16] [%emt 0:01:22]} Bxd3 {[%emt 0:01:25]} 25. Rxd3 {
>[%eval -10,14] [%emt 0:03:43]} Rb1 {(Sc6) [%emt 0:00:19]} 26. Kf1 {
>[%eval -10,14] [%emt 0:01:34]} Nc4 {(Sc6) [%emt 0:01:16]} 27. Nd2 {
>[%eval 17,14] [%emt 0:02:33]} Nxd2+ {[%emt 0:00:10]} 28. Rxd2 {
>[%eval 18,16] [%emt 0:01:06]} Nf6 {[%emt 0:01:42]} 29. Ke2 {
>[%eval 16,18] [%emt 0:01:09]} b5 {(Kh7) [%emt 0:02:07]} 30. Rc2 {
>[%eval 21,17] [%emt 0:04:46]} Nd5 {(Kh7) [%emt 0:00:22]} 31. Ba5 {
>[%eval 13,15] [%emt 0:01:56]} f5 {(Kh7) [%emt 0:00:42]} 32. f3 {
>[%eval 5,16] [%emt 0:01:50]} Rg1 {[%emt 0:03:06]} 33. Kd3 {
>[%eval 12,16] [%emt 0:00:00]} f4 {(Kh7) [%emt 0:02:32]} 34. Bd2 {
>[%eval -5,16] [%emt 0:03:48]} Rxg2 {[%emt 0:00:08]} 35. e4 {
>[%eval 0,16] [%emt 0:01:14]} Ne3 {(Se7) [%emt 0:01:15]} 36. Bxe3 {
>[%eval 19,18] [%emt 0:02:29]} Rxc2 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 37. Kxc2 {
>[%eval 0,19] [%emt 0:01:17]} fxe3 {[%emt 0:01:11]} 38. f4 {
>[%eval -10,24] [%emt 0:00:10]} e5 {[%emt 0:02:30]} 39. fxe5 {
>[%eval -16,25] [%emt 0:00:00]} Kf7 {[%emt 0:02:23]} 40. h4 {
>[%eval -41,25] [%emt 0:00:36]} Ke6 {[%emt 0:02:22]} 41. Kd3 {
>[%eval -40,26] [%emt 0:00:00]} Kxe5 {[%emt 0:02:14]} 42. Kxe3 {
>[%eval -31,28] [%emt 0:00:00]} g5 {[%emt 0:02:10]} 43. hxg5 {
>[%eval -63,29] [%emt 0:00:00]} hxg5 {[%emt 0:02:12]} 44. Kf3 {
>[%eval -79,33] [%emt 0:00:00]} g4+ {(a5) [%emt 0:02:08]} 45. Ke3 {
>[%eval -337,29] [%emt 0:02:32]} a5 {(g3) [%emt 0:01:31]} 46. b3 {
>[%eval -337,27] [%emt 0:12:08]} g3 {(b4) [%emt 0:02:04]} 47. b4 {
>[%eval -32749,25] [%emt 0:08:03]} g2 {[%emt 0:02:18]} 48. Kf2 {
>[%eval -32749,20] [%emt 0:00:10]} axb4 {[%emt 0:02:44]} 49. axb4 {
>[%eval -32749,30] [%emt 0:00:01]} Kxe4 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 50. Kxg2 {
>[%eval -32749,61] [%emt 0:00:06]} Kd3 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 51. Kf3 {
>[%eval -32750,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Kc3 {(Kc4) [%emt 0:00:03]} 52. Ke3 {
>[%eval -32751,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Kxb4 {(Kc4) [%emt 0:00:03]} 53. Kd4 {
>[%eval -32752,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Kb3 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 54. Kd3 {
>[%eval -32752,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} b4 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 55. Kd2 {
>[%eval -32753,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Ka2 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 56. Kd3 {
>[%eval -32755,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} b3 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 57. Kc3 {
>[%eval -32756,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} b2 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 58. Kd4 {
>[%eval -32756,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} b1=Q {(Kb3) [%emt 0:00:06]} 59. Ke5 {
>[%eval -32757,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Kb2 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 60. Kd5 {
>[%eval -32759,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Kc3 {(Dd3+) [%emt 0:00:03]} 61. Kd6 {
>[%eval -32760,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Kd4 {(Dd3+) [%emt 0:00:03]} 62. Ke6 {
>[%eval -32761,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Qf1 {(De4+) [%emt 0:00:03]} 63. Kd6 {
>[%eval -32762,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Qf6+ {(De2) [%emt 0:00:03]} 64. Kd7 {
>[%eval -32763,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Kc5 {(Df3) [%emt 0:00:03]} 65. Ke8 {
>[%eval -32764,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Qg7 {(Dd4) [%emt 0:00:03]} 66. Kd8 {
>[%eval -32764,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Kd6 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 67. Kc8 {
>[%eval -32766,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Qc7# {[%emt 0:00:04]} 0-1
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