Author: Drexel,Michael
Date: 13:34:40 11/28/03
Go up one level in this thread
On November 28, 2003 at 16:20:12, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>On November 28, 2003 at 16:13:27, Peter Berger wrote:
>
>>For information about setup and rules:
>>http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?329237 (archived already, I'll
>>repost)
>>
>>One of those games that allows strong but wrong conclusions :). A very drawish
>>opening, evals swinging around the 0.00 point.
>>
>>After longish analysis it turns out that
>>
>>Junior 8.0.0.2 - Crafty 19.4
>>[D]6k1/6p1/p3p2p/1p6/4PP2/P3p3/1PK4P/8 b - - 0 1 bm e5
>>
>>38. ...e5 is a forced win for black, thus 38. f4?? the losing mistake. Tough for
>>some strong engines to find, but not too tough.
>>
>>The interesting moment is move 35 of course.
>>
>>Junior 8.0.0.2 - Crafty 19.4
>>[D]6k1/6p1/p3p2p/1p1n4/4Pp2/P2K1P2/1PRB2rP/8 b - - 0 1
>>
>>What's the verdict on 35... Ne3? - Knowing the above it's a very nice try, in a
>>slightly different position it could also be called dubious I suppose ;).
>>
>>But I think it's fair to say that Junior has some problems evaluating the remote
>>passer in the resulting pawn endgame - let's look at move 42.
>>
>>Junior 8.0.0.2 - Crafty 19.4
>>[D]8/6p1/p6p/1p2k3/4P2P/P3K3/1P6/8 b - - 0 1
>>
>>Junior judges this -0.32 at depth 28, while it's already very easy to understand
>>for a humble human that white is toast.
>
>"distant majority" code. I have specific code for this case, it is a
>precursor to "distant passer" of course.
>
>
>>
>>
>>Some general remark about one feature of the games so far: Crafty just plays too
>>fast. Very long games show that both use all their time. But: until move 45
>>Junior usually uses 1.5-2.0 * more time than Crafty.
>>Of course this gives Crafty the chance to have some deep thought on some move 86
>>or 91, but usually those don't matter that much. That's a nice performance boost
>>(relatively) for Junior in the important stages of the game IMHO.
>
>
>It might help in the endgame, but it doesn't in the middlegame.
>
>How are you setting the time control? IE through xboard? Or through
>the .craftyrc or what? I generally don't see it having way more time
>than the opponent as you describe...
I see it all the time in Blitz 5+3. With Wb2Uci and ponder off that is.
Michael
>
>It would be interesting to see if either you have a bad setup issue, or
>I have a time allocation bug, or something in between?
>
>
>
>>
>>OK, enough talks for today :).
>>
>>(all comments without any warranty at all of course)
>>
>>Standing: Junior 2 - Crafty 3 ( 3 draws)
>>
>>Peter
>>
>>Uli Tuerke's conversion tool has problems to deal with the mate evals of the
>>Fritz-GUI using tablebases, so this one is not complete:
>>
>>[Event "Blitz:120'+10""]
>>[Site "Berlin"]
>>[Date "2003.11.28"]
>>[Round "8"]
>>[White "Junior 8.0.0.2"]
>>[Black "Crafty 19.4"]
>>[Result "0-1"]
>>[ECO "D27"]
>>[Annotator "P233-PIV2.0GHz"]
>>[PlyCount "134"]
>>[TimeControl "7200+10"]
>>
>>{16MB, Junior8.ctg, P233MMX
>>} 1. d4 {1} d5 {6} 2. c4{0} dxc4 {(c6) 3} 3. Nf3 {0} a6 {(Sf6) 4} 4. e3 {0}
>>Nf6 {4} 5. Bxc4 {0} e6 {4} 6. O-O {0} c5 {4}7. Bb3 {0} Nc6 {(b5) 3}
>>8. Nc3 {0} Be7 {(cxd4) 4} 9. dxc5 {0} Qxd1 {3} 10. Rxd1{0} Bxc5 {4}
>>11. Bd2 {0} Bd7 {4} 12. Rac1 {0} Ba7 {4} 13. Be1 {0} O-O {(Ke7) 264}
>>14. Na4 {0.43 955} Rfd8 {281} 15. Nc5 {0.41 0} Bxc5 {198} 16. Rxc5 {0.44 28}
>>h6 {(Tac8) 203} 17. Bc2 {0.38 229} Rac8 {(b6) 200} 18. a3 {0.24 653}
>>Na5 {(Se7) 193} 19. Rxc8 {0.07 200} Rxc8 {5} 20. Bb1 {0.08 273} Ba4 {188}
>>21. Rd4 {0.04 108} Bb5 {(Ld7) 184} 22. Rd2 {0.03 163} Rc1 {(Kf8) 178}
>>23. Rd8+ {-0.16 145} Ne8 {49} 24. Bd3 {-0.18 82} Bxd3 {85}
>>25. Rxd3 {-0.10 223} Rb1 {(Sc6) 19} 26. Kf1 {-0.10 94} Nc4 {(Sc6) 76}
>>27. Nd2 {0.17 153} Nxd2+ {10} 28. Rxd2 {0.18 66} Nf6 {102} 29. Ke2 {0.16 69}
>>b5 {(Kh7) 127} 30. Rc2 {0.21 286} Nd5 {(Kh7) 22} 31. Ba5 {0.13 116}
>>f5 {(Kh7) 42} 32. f3 {0.05 110} Rg1 {186} 33. Kd3 {0.12 0} f4 {(Kh7) 152}
>>34. Bd2 {-0.05 228} Rxg2 {8} 35. e4 {0.00 74} Ne3 {(Se7) 75}
>>36. Bxe3 {0.19 149} Rxc2 {4} 37. Kxc2 {0.00 77} fxe3 {71} 38. f4 {-0.10 10}
>>e5 {150} 39. fxe5 {-0.16 0} Kf7 {143} 40. h4 {-0.41 36} Ke6 {142}
>>41. Kd3 {-0.40 0} Kxe5 {134} 42. Kxe3 {-0.31 0} g5 {130} 43. hxg5 {-0.63 0}
>>hxg5 {132} 44. Kf3 {-0.79 0} g4+ {(a5) 128} 45. Ke3 {-3.37 152} a5 {(g3) 91}
>>46. b3 {-3.37 728} g3 {(b4) 124}
>>47. b4
>>
>>see the ChessBase PGN for the rest of the game.
>>
>>
>>And the ChessBase-PGN version:
>>
>>[Event "Blitz:120'+10""]
>>[Site "Berlin"]
>>[Date "2003.11.28"]
>>[Round "8"]
>>[White "Junior 8.0.0.2"]
>>[Black "Crafty 19.4"]
>>[Result "0-1"]
>>[ECO "D27"]
>>[Annotator "P233-PIV2.0GHz"]
>>[PlyCount "134"]
>>[TimeControl "7200+10"]
>>
>>{16MB, Junior8.ctg, P233MMX
>>} 1. d4 {[%emt 0:00:01]} d5 {[%emt 0:00:06]} 2. c4
>>{[%emt 0:00:00]} dxc4 {(c6) [%emt 0:00:03]} 3. Nf3 {[%emt 0:00:00]} a6 {
>>(Sf6) [%emt 0:00:04]} 4. e3 {[%emt 0:00:00]} Nf6 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 5. Bxc4 {
>>[%emt 0:00:00]} e6 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 6. O-O {[%emt 0:00:00]} c5 {[%emt 0:00:04]}
>>7. Bb3 {[%emt 0:00:00]} Nc6 {(b5) [%emt 0:00:03]} 8. Nc3 {[%emt 0:00:00]} Be7 {
>>(cxd4) [%emt 0:00:04]} 9. dxc5 {[%emt 0:00:00]} Qxd1 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 10. Rxd1
>>{[%emt 0:00:00]} Bxc5 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 11. Bd2 {[%emt 0:00:00]} Bd7 {
>>[%emt 0:00:04]} 12. Rac1 {[%emt 0:00:00]} Ba7 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 13. Be1 {
>>[%emt 0:00:00]} O-O {(Ke7) [%emt 0:04:24]} 14. Na4 {
>>[%eval 43,17] [%emt 0:15:55]} Rfd8 {[%emt 0:04:41]} 15. Nc5 {
>>[%eval 41,18] [%emt 0:00:00]} Bxc5 {[%emt 0:03:18]} 16. Rxc5 {
>>[%eval 44,17] [%emt 0:00:28]} h6 {(Tac8) [%emt 0:03:23]} 17. Bc2 {
>>[%eval 38,17] [%emt 0:03:49]} Rac8 {(b6) [%emt 0:03:20]} 18. a3 {
>>[%eval 24,17] [%emt 0:10:53]} Na5 {(Se7) [%emt 0:03:13]} 19. Rxc8 {
>>[%eval 7,15] [%emt 0:03:20]} Rxc8 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 20. Bb1 {
>>[%eval 8,16] [%emt 0:04:33]} Ba4 {[%emt 0:03:08]} 21. Rd4 {
>>[%eval 4,16] [%emt 0:01:48]} Bb5 {(Ld7) [%emt 0:03:04]} 22. Rd2 {
>>[%eval 3,15] [%emt 0:02:43]} Rc1 {(Kf8) [%emt 0:02:58]} 23. Rd8+ {
>>[%eval -16,16] [%emt 0:02:25]} Ne8 {[%emt 0:00:49]} 24. Bd3 {
>>[%eval -18,16] [%emt 0:01:22]} Bxd3 {[%emt 0:01:25]} 25. Rxd3 {
>>[%eval -10,14] [%emt 0:03:43]} Rb1 {(Sc6) [%emt 0:00:19]} 26. Kf1 {
>>[%eval -10,14] [%emt 0:01:34]} Nc4 {(Sc6) [%emt 0:01:16]} 27. Nd2 {
>>[%eval 17,14] [%emt 0:02:33]} Nxd2+ {[%emt 0:00:10]} 28. Rxd2 {
>>[%eval 18,16] [%emt 0:01:06]} Nf6 {[%emt 0:01:42]} 29. Ke2 {
>>[%eval 16,18] [%emt 0:01:09]} b5 {(Kh7) [%emt 0:02:07]} 30. Rc2 {
>>[%eval 21,17] [%emt 0:04:46]} Nd5 {(Kh7) [%emt 0:00:22]} 31. Ba5 {
>>[%eval 13,15] [%emt 0:01:56]} f5 {(Kh7) [%emt 0:00:42]} 32. f3 {
>>[%eval 5,16] [%emt 0:01:50]} Rg1 {[%emt 0:03:06]} 33. Kd3 {
>>[%eval 12,16] [%emt 0:00:00]} f4 {(Kh7) [%emt 0:02:32]} 34. Bd2 {
>>[%eval -5,16] [%emt 0:03:48]} Rxg2 {[%emt 0:00:08]} 35. e4 {
>>[%eval 0,16] [%emt 0:01:14]} Ne3 {(Se7) [%emt 0:01:15]} 36. Bxe3 {
>>[%eval 19,18] [%emt 0:02:29]} Rxc2 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 37. Kxc2 {
>>[%eval 0,19] [%emt 0:01:17]} fxe3 {[%emt 0:01:11]} 38. f4 {
>>[%eval -10,24] [%emt 0:00:10]} e5 {[%emt 0:02:30]} 39. fxe5 {
>>[%eval -16,25] [%emt 0:00:00]} Kf7 {[%emt 0:02:23]} 40. h4 {
>>[%eval -41,25] [%emt 0:00:36]} Ke6 {[%emt 0:02:22]} 41. Kd3 {
>>[%eval -40,26] [%emt 0:00:00]} Kxe5 {[%emt 0:02:14]} 42. Kxe3 {
>>[%eval -31,28] [%emt 0:00:00]} g5 {[%emt 0:02:10]} 43. hxg5 {
>>[%eval -63,29] [%emt 0:00:00]} hxg5 {[%emt 0:02:12]} 44. Kf3 {
>>[%eval -79,33] [%emt 0:00:00]} g4+ {(a5) [%emt 0:02:08]} 45. Ke3 {
>>[%eval -337,29] [%emt 0:02:32]} a5 {(g3) [%emt 0:01:31]} 46. b3 {
>>[%eval -337,27] [%emt 0:12:08]} g3 {(b4) [%emt 0:02:04]} 47. b4 {
>>[%eval -32749,25] [%emt 0:08:03]} g2 {[%emt 0:02:18]} 48. Kf2 {
>>[%eval -32749,20] [%emt 0:00:10]} axb4 {[%emt 0:02:44]} 49. axb4 {
>>[%eval -32749,30] [%emt 0:00:01]} Kxe4 {[%emt 0:00:04]} 50. Kxg2 {
>>[%eval -32749,61] [%emt 0:00:06]} Kd3 {[%emt 0:00:05]} 51. Kf3 {
>>[%eval -32750,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Kc3 {(Kc4) [%emt 0:00:03]} 52. Ke3 {
>>[%eval -32751,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Kxb4 {(Kc4) [%emt 0:00:03]} 53. Kd4 {
>>[%eval -32752,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Kb3 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 54. Kd3 {
>>[%eval -32752,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} b4 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 55. Kd2 {
>>[%eval -32753,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Ka2 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 56. Kd3 {
>>[%eval -32755,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} b3 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 57. Kc3 {
>>[%eval -32756,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} b2 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 58. Kd4 {
>>[%eval -32756,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} b1=Q {(Kb3) [%emt 0:00:06]} 59. Ke5 {
>>[%eval -32757,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Kb2 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 60. Kd5 {
>>[%eval -32759,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Kc3 {(Dd3+) [%emt 0:00:03]} 61. Kd6 {
>>[%eval -32760,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Kd4 {(Dd3+) [%emt 0:00:03]} 62. Ke6 {
>>[%eval -32761,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Qf1 {(De4+) [%emt 0:00:03]} 63. Kd6 {
>>[%eval -32762,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Qf6+ {(De2) [%emt 0:00:03]} 64. Kd7 {
>>[%eval -32763,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Kc5 {(Df3) [%emt 0:00:03]} 65. Ke8 {
>>[%eval -32764,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Qg7 {(Dd4) [%emt 0:00:03]} 66. Kd8 {
>>[%eval -32764,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Kd6 {[%emt 0:00:03]} 67. Kc8 {
>>[%eval -32766,1] [%emt 0:00:00]} Qc7# {[%emt 0:00:04]} 0-1
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