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Subject: Re: Official rules of WCCC

Author: rait

Date: 17:00:30 11/29/03

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On November 29, 2003 at 19:34:13, Uri Blass wrote:

>On November 29, 2003 at 18:40:11, Amir Ban wrote:
>
>>On November 29, 2003 at 16:21:43, Peter Berger wrote:
>>
>>>On November 29, 2003 at 16:17:07, Jeff Lischer wrote:
>>>
>>>>On November 29, 2003 at 15:22:45, Dieter Buerssner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Can anybody point out to me an URL of the official rules of the WCCC in Graz. I
>>>>>am not able to find it. I remember, that I had read some official ICGA rules
>>>>>(for earlier tournaments), but cannot find them at the moment, either.
>>>>>
>>>>Is this what you had in mind?
>>>>
>>>>http://www.chess003.at/pdf/info_rules.pdf
>>>
>>>Interesting - so Jonny's author could simply have claimed an operator mistake
>>>according to rule number 5 and the game would have been drawn.
>>>
>>>I wonder why he didn't do this.
>>>
>>>Peter
>>
>>He didn't want to.
>>
>>Here is what happened:
>>
>>In the final phase of the game Shredder, in an easily won position, became
>>indecisive due to bugs, and finally stepped into a three-fold repetition while
>>showing a mate score.
>>
>>On Jonny's screen with the Chessbase interface the threefold repetition message
>>popped-up, and the game was marked as a draw.
>>
>>Jonny's operator realized that Shredder had thrown away the game, and the
>>championship, and out of chivalry did not want to accept that. He went to the TD
>>v.d. Herik and asked for permission to continue playing.
>>
>>However, the TD did not hear or understand the request, and told him to wait
>>until he comes by the board. When he arrived, Jonny had already played the
>>repetition move, and Shredder was pondering. The TD, still thinking that Jonny
>>was trying to claim a draw, ruled that as a move was played the draw cannot be
>>claimed.
>>
>>While the game continued this was discussed by the viewers, and brought again to
>>the attention of the TD, who said he will consider the matter when the game is
>>over.
>>
>>When the game was over, the TD with other ICGA officials questioned the Jonny
>>and Shredder programmers about what had happened, inspected Jonny's chessbase
>>log, and talked to spectator programmers, including myself. Then they ruled the
>>Shredder's win stands, and called a programmer's meeting to announce and explain
>>the decision.
>>
>>At this stage they still were not aware that Jonny's operator wanted to continue
>>rather than claim a draw. However, during the discussion Jonny's operator came
>>on stage and told frankly that his question to the TD when the 3-fold repetition
>>pop-up occurred was whether he is allowed to ignore it and continue.
>>
>>I said at the meeting that in this case the ruling is not valid, because it is
>>not the case that Jonny erred in claiming a draw, but the opposite: the operator
>>did not want to claim it, and this is something he should not be allowed to do.
>>
>>Suppose the TD had understood his question: "I can claim a draw now, but I
>>request permission to go ahead and get mated". The obvious answer by the TD is:
>>"No way. You are not allowed to lose on purpose".
>>
>>The TD, perplexed by this new twist, said that while possibly Jonny's operator
>>may be censured, his intentions do not change the technical chain of events, so
>>the ruling stays.
>>
>>My opinion: In a human game refusing to claim a draw out of chivalry is
>>something that is within the rules. However, in a computer game the operator
>>should not be allowed to make decisions that are against the interests of the
>>program. An equivalent would be an endgame KNP vs. K, where the stronger side,
>>due to a bug, loses the pawn, but the opponent, rather than taking the pawn,
>>chooses to resign. No ICCA TD would allow such a resignation.
>>
>>Amir
>
>I agree.
>
>I think that the best that stefan can do now is to congratulate fransh morsh for
>winning the world championship and not to go to a match against Fritz.
>
>It is better not to win the world championship than to win it in an unfair way.
>
>Uri

My oppinion that this is not that case -
as Mr.Amir said :

"On Jonny's screen with the Chessbase interface the threefold repetition message
popped-up, and the game was marked as a draw."

Therefore we dont know dose Jonny got that it was 3 time repetition ore was it
only chessbases interface.
rait





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