Author: rait
Date: 17:00:30 11/29/03
Go up one level in this thread
On November 29, 2003 at 19:34:13, Uri Blass wrote: >On November 29, 2003 at 18:40:11, Amir Ban wrote: > >>On November 29, 2003 at 16:21:43, Peter Berger wrote: >> >>>On November 29, 2003 at 16:17:07, Jeff Lischer wrote: >>> >>>>On November 29, 2003 at 15:22:45, Dieter Buerssner wrote: >>>> >>>>>Can anybody point out to me an URL of the official rules of the WCCC in Graz. I >>>>>am not able to find it. I remember, that I had read some official ICGA rules >>>>>(for earlier tournaments), but cannot find them at the moment, either. >>>>> >>>>Is this what you had in mind? >>>> >>>>http://www.chess003.at/pdf/info_rules.pdf >>> >>>Interesting - so Jonny's author could simply have claimed an operator mistake >>>according to rule number 5 and the game would have been drawn. >>> >>>I wonder why he didn't do this. >>> >>>Peter >> >>He didn't want to. >> >>Here is what happened: >> >>In the final phase of the game Shredder, in an easily won position, became >>indecisive due to bugs, and finally stepped into a three-fold repetition while >>showing a mate score. >> >>On Jonny's screen with the Chessbase interface the threefold repetition message >>popped-up, and the game was marked as a draw. >> >>Jonny's operator realized that Shredder had thrown away the game, and the >>championship, and out of chivalry did not want to accept that. He went to the TD >>v.d. Herik and asked for permission to continue playing. >> >>However, the TD did not hear or understand the request, and told him to wait >>until he comes by the board. When he arrived, Jonny had already played the >>repetition move, and Shredder was pondering. The TD, still thinking that Jonny >>was trying to claim a draw, ruled that as a move was played the draw cannot be >>claimed. >> >>While the game continued this was discussed by the viewers, and brought again to >>the attention of the TD, who said he will consider the matter when the game is >>over. >> >>When the game was over, the TD with other ICGA officials questioned the Jonny >>and Shredder programmers about what had happened, inspected Jonny's chessbase >>log, and talked to spectator programmers, including myself. Then they ruled the >>Shredder's win stands, and called a programmer's meeting to announce and explain >>the decision. >> >>At this stage they still were not aware that Jonny's operator wanted to continue >>rather than claim a draw. However, during the discussion Jonny's operator came >>on stage and told frankly that his question to the TD when the 3-fold repetition >>pop-up occurred was whether he is allowed to ignore it and continue. >> >>I said at the meeting that in this case the ruling is not valid, because it is >>not the case that Jonny erred in claiming a draw, but the opposite: the operator >>did not want to claim it, and this is something he should not be allowed to do. >> >>Suppose the TD had understood his question: "I can claim a draw now, but I >>request permission to go ahead and get mated". The obvious answer by the TD is: >>"No way. You are not allowed to lose on purpose". >> >>The TD, perplexed by this new twist, said that while possibly Jonny's operator >>may be censured, his intentions do not change the technical chain of events, so >>the ruling stays. >> >>My opinion: In a human game refusing to claim a draw out of chivalry is >>something that is within the rules. However, in a computer game the operator >>should not be allowed to make decisions that are against the interests of the >>program. An equivalent would be an endgame KNP vs. K, where the stronger side, >>due to a bug, loses the pawn, but the opponent, rather than taking the pawn, >>chooses to resign. No ICCA TD would allow such a resignation. >> >>Amir > >I agree. > >I think that the best that stefan can do now is to congratulate fransh morsh for >winning the world championship and not to go to a match against Fritz. > >It is better not to win the world championship than to win it in an unfair way. > >Uri My oppinion that this is not that case - as Mr.Amir said : "On Jonny's screen with the Chessbase interface the threefold repetition message popped-up, and the game was marked as a draw." Therefore we dont know dose Jonny got that it was 3 time repetition ore was it only chessbases interface. rait
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