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Subject: Re: 12th WCCC, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel, July 4th-12th 200

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 08:10:37 12/03/03

Go up one level in this thread


On December 03, 2003 at 10:46:50, martin fierz wrote:

>On December 03, 2003 at 09:58:15, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On December 03, 2003 at 06:19:38, Thomas Mayer wrote:
>>
>>>Hi Bob,
>>>
>>>>> I agree. The above statement combined with another attack on the people he
>>>>> describes constructively as "morons" made this, IMO, a rather unpleasent
>>>>> post.
>>>
>>>> So you believe that the TD and ICGA behaved "just fine" in the "debacle in
>>>> Graz"???   I've seen 18-year-old TDs make better decisions.
>>>
>>>you were not there - so how can you decide about the quality of the TDs at all ?
>>>Just my two cents...
>>>
>>
>>Er, because I can read?
>
>vincent just posted some more info on the list case. containing some of the
>evidence against list. without that information, how can you possibly know that
>ICGA handled the list matter poorly, even if you can read? after reading
>vincent's post, i believe they handled it just fine.

I haven't said much about the list case.  I have mainly talked about the
Johnny/Shredder case.

But, for the List case, I have gone on record saying the following.  There
were three options open to the ICGA after receiving a complaint:

(1) handle it prior to the event, so that list never gets in.

(2) handle it after the event, so that even though list played, and it
influenced the final outcome, the pairings were done fairly and those that
should have played it played it.

(3) Handle it during the event and either (a) forfeit the already-played
games, giving the opponents a win even if they drew or lost.  There were
enough rounds that the pairing errors this would cause in already-played
games would be washed out;  (b) let it continue to play since it had
already beaten some, and later opponents get an easy point rather than possibly
a draw or loss.  Then, after the event is over, disqualify it from farther
participation.

The ICGA took a 4th option that was worse.  Just kicking it out in the
middle.  Those that lost (including a commercial program that drew) lost
points, just because they were unlucky enough to be paired against it in
an early round, while those that were lucky enough to be paired against it
post-boot got an easy 1, which certainly skews the final standings a bit.

So that is my complaint about how List was handled.  Letting it play on
would have given the ICGA time to be _sure_ before they brand the author a
cheater, something that can't ever be undone.  I think it should take more
than an anonymous complaint.  For example, in one of the Dutch events, several
complained to me, prior to the event, about "Bionic Impact".  I corresponded
with the TD and the facts were known prior to the event.  Of course, he still
let the program play, but at least the "clone" facts were easily provable
and everyone knew what was going on.  Before there was any public notification.

my $.02




>
>cheers
>  martin
>
>>The events of this (and past) ICGA events have been well-documented.
>>
>>I _was_ involved in some of them.
>>
>>>Greets, Thomas



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