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Subject: Re: 12th WCCC, Bar-Ilan University: why not to go.

Author: Mike Byrne

Date: 13:00:43 12/06/03

Go up one level in this thread


On December 04, 2003 at 09:58:18, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On December 04, 2003 at 00:25:34, Johan de Koning wrote:
>
>>On December 02, 2003 at 10:13:36, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On December 02, 2003 at 01:10:24, Johan de Koning wrote:
>>
>>>>I know you know the I in ICGA and the W in WCCC.
>>>
>>>Yes.  "I" somehow equates to "European"..
>>>
>>>This organization is _really_ the ECGA, not the ICGA.  And the WCCC is really
>>>the ECCC.  World events are held all over the world.  Continental events are
>>>held on a specific continent.
>>>
>>>>And I hope you know that 98% of this world's population does not care about
>>>>TG-day, nor about I-day, nor about Halloween, nor about UAb classes.
>>>
>>>This isn't about "UAB classes".  It is about taking off for 1.5 weeks from
>>>_any_ job, spending a lot of money to trave, for room and food, and doing
>>>it _every_ year/ every 3 years, since these events are _never_ held outside
>>>Europe.  There are other continents on this planet.  But my stand here is well
>>>known and won't change anything, except that something will come along to
>>>replace ECGA with something containing a real I..  even if I means Internet.
>>
>>So you can't/wantn't invest the time, the energy, and the money.
>>That's understandable, but it applies to everyone around the globe.
>>(Particularly to those with real jobs. :-)
>
>I daresay mine is just as "real" as any other.  I'm in my office at 8am
>M-F.  I often leave by 7pm.  :)
>
>
>>
>>Since North America is a big continent, it also applies to anyone
>>living there at one end and playing at the other end. In that regard
>>there's little difference between for example Boston, LA, Vancouver
>>and Tokyo, Sydney, Johannesburg.
>
>You miss my main point.  The following are the reasons I can not attend
>a WCCC/WMCCC event.
>
>1.  Time.  The things take over a week.  Old ACM and WCCC events thru the
>early 1990's took a weekend + 2-3 weekdays.  That's a big difference from
>1.5 weeks.
>
>2.  Cost.  (1) makes (2) quite high.  3-4 nights in a NYC hotel is not cheap.
>8-9 nights is a lot more "not cheap".  Factor in food.  I can fly from the east
>coast of the US to the west coast for $100-$200 if I plan well.  Multiply by
>10 to travel to Europe.
>
>3.  The other points are just annoying.  IE I would _never_ attend an
>event over Christmas or Thanksgiving.  Most any other holiday I would work
>around.  But the priority of holidays (IE July 4 in the current discussion)
>is _tiny_ compared to (1), and eventually (2).
>
>(1) _could_ be fixed.  Why we need 11 rounds with 16 participants is beyond
>my reasoning.  And if we really do, why the first 4-5 couldn't be done before
>the event, on ICC, is also beyond my reasoning.  It could cut 1.5 weeks to 3-4
>days easily.  But apparently there is some interest in keeping these things
>"long".  What that is is beyond me..
>


I think that having 11 rounds with 16 paripants is ill conceived.  Does anyone
really care today that in 1995 , Fritz won the 8th WCCC in 5 rounds with a 1
game playoff.  The 1995 field had 24 particpants.  5 rounds is appropriate with
a field of 24.  11 rounds with 16 particpants is ludicrous in a swiss style
tournament.  You might as limit the field to 12 with perhaps a qualifying
tournament played over the net and have a round robin with 12 particpants.
Alternatively , go to 5 rounds and we might have 24 or 32 partipants since it
could be handled in "one week".

One of the drawbacks with so many rounds in such a small field, all the top
eengines have played each other in the earlier rounds - making the later rounds
anti-climatic.











>
>
>>
>>There are of course cultural problems. Some people in some places
>>do not fluently speak your native language. Not to mention different
>>foods, different holidays, different ethics on recrational chemicals,
>>recreational weapons, and recreational driving (a panic break on "die
>>Autobahn" cost me to tyres). But again, these problems apply to everyone
>>around the globe.
>>
>
>
>I've driven on the Autobahn.  I don't consider that an issue, other than
>most maniacs seem to collect there. :)  I don't have any cultural issues
>that prevent me from traveling.  I've been to many places.  Japan, China,
>former USSR, London, Paris, Stockholm, Berlin, Amsterdam, and probably a
>few places I missed (totally ignoring North America / South America of
>course).
>
>
>
>
>>The bottom line is that you have to choose your excuses carefully.
>>An interesting optimization problem is to pick more then one excuse
>>without offending the rest of the world.
>
>
>My primary reason has _always_ been "time".  1.5 weeks is simply not managable.
>Would you like to sign up for a course in (say) computer architecture or
>operating systems or parallel programming or assembly language programming,
>and discover that your instructor disappears for two straight weeks?  It just
>isn't reasonable.  It never was reasonable.  If you look at early ACM/WCCC
>events, they were 4-5 rounds.  The reason was to keep the event short so that
>people could actually attend without wrecking their jobs...
>
>Cost is certainly a second-level issue.
>
>Holidays is mostly "noise".  I have some constraints I personally impose.  IE
>no travel on Thanksgiving or Christmas.  I've traveled on other holidays with
>no real problem.
>
>So don't lock on to the "holiday" as "the deal breaker".  The length of the
>event (for me) is the deal breaker.  Combined with the cost, and it is just
>untenable.
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>... Johan



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