Author: Uri Blass
Date: 23:37:39 12/10/03
Go up one level in this thread
On December 10, 2003 at 18:34:54, Amir Ban wrote: >On December 10, 2003 at 18:12:39, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On December 10, 2003 at 17:27:04, Amir Ban wrote: >> >>>On December 10, 2003 at 15:29:44, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On December 10, 2003 at 13:33:46, Matthew Hull wrote: >>>> >>>>>On December 10, 2003 at 13:19:49, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On December 10, 2003 at 10:48:21, Matthew Hull wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>You can still do this with a local FICS server, authors present. >>>>>> >>>>>>But what's the advantage of autoplay then? >>>>> >>>>>- No bungling of repetition draws. >>>>>- No issues of operator errors and/or fatigue affecting the games. >>>>>- No time lost in move transmission. >>>>>- Programmers/operators are more free to move about and relax without fear of >>>>>missing a move and losing time. >>>>>- Programs make all the decisions about draw offers, draw acceptance, resigning, >>>>>etc. The human element is removed and it's true CC. >>>>>- More rounds can be played in the time specified, reducing costs to >>>>>participants and organizers alike. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>It's all advantages and no disadvantages. >>>>> >>>>>Matt >>>>> >>>> >>>>I can't even believe that question was asked, much less answered. It >>>>seems intuitively obvious to the casual observer, for those that play >>>>hundreds of thousands of games on chess servers... >>>> >>> >>>Well, perhaps I don't qualify as a casual observer, but you and Matt are making >>>no case at all, and shouting "it's so obvious !" doesn't make your case. >>> >>>Perhaps the solution would be for you to observe a WCCC and see what little >>>difference this would make. >>> >>>Amir >> >>I _have_ observed them. I have seen operator interference. I have seen games >>that had to be backed up. I have seen time lost because an operator was away >>from the board for restroom break or whatever. >> > >Operators lose time all the time, going to the bathroom, have coffee, wandering >to other tables, or even reading CCC. Everybody allows 10 minutes or so for lost >time, or adjust the clock later, and it makes so little difference to the game >that I don't know why it should even be discussed. I agree that it usually does not make a big difference but there is still a difference. > >I've only been attending since 1995, and I don't remember any problem caused by >operators. > > >>How could you _not_ think that an automatic event would be better? IE on the >>CCT events we can chat in the games via kibitz. We can chat in channels to a >>wider audience. This would happen locally where we could gather around >>interesting games and discuss them without worrying about missing something >>on our own games. We could use automatic pairings, so that round 2 fires up >>right after round 1 ends, compressing the event and allowing even more rounds >>(or fewer days). Etc. I don't see _any_ down-side to getting the humans >>out of the loop, since the computers are supposedly playing the games anyway. >> > >Sorry, I don't understand this at all. > >Pairings are done at the end of a round, by a pairing program. Except for the >handshake, how do operators delay the next round ? > > >>As far as observing goes, I observed at the first WCCC event. I participated >>in the next one in 1977. I missed 80 as it was out of the US and too expensive >>to attend. I played in 1983, 1986 and 1989. That's six I personally attended. >>Not to mention 20 ACM events that had just as many entries and just as many >>problems to handle. The last CCT event went smoothly and quietly... > >Well, either things have changed or your memory needs refreshing. > >I'm not saying automatic is bad, though it would take some time to stabilize: >How to let the TD have the control he needs and what to do when the damn things >don't talk to each other, etc. It will work in the end, but since there's no >clear benefit, why bother ? > >Amir I think that there is a clear benefit. Main benefit is that automatic save time for humans who do not need to move the pieces in every game or to watch the game to pay attention to the opponent move almost in every moment. I think that it also means that it is possible to play more games on the same time. I remember that GCP said in another post that 3 rounds per day when every round is 5 hours is not acceptable. I guess that is is acceptable when there are no operators who need to work in every round on entering moves and we can have league tournament instead of swiss tournament. Uri
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