Author: Uri Blass
Date: 10:38:52 12/12/03
Go up one level in this thread
On December 12, 2003 at 06:53:49, martin fierz wrote: >On December 12, 2003 at 04:55:57, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On December 12, 2003 at 04:30:18, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >> >>>On December 12, 2003 at 04:13:35, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On December 12, 2003 at 03:30:27, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>> >>>>>The main opening book of Falcon is in Shredder Classic format (BOK), but I can >>>>>also create a similar book out of my pgn database in Fritz format (CTG). In any >>>>>case, Falcon relies on the interface to play the opening moves. >>>>> >>>>>So, AFAIK there is no way to connect either the Fritz or Shredder Classic >>>>>interfaces to play on ICC. In that case, and assuming that there is no external >>>>>program that can read either BOK or CTG formats and play the moves on behalf of >>>>>WinBoard interface, I don't see how Falcon can play in CCT. >>>>> >>>>>It seems that the only interfaces that can connect to ICC are WinBoard and >>>>>Arena, none of which have their own book formats (can't compile a book out of a >>>>>pgn database). >>>>> >>>>>However, non-winboard engines such as Shredder, Fritz, Junior, and Hiarcs have >>>>>already participated in CCT in the past. >>>>> >>>>>What am I missing?! >>>> >>>>Genesis can use a book under winboard so what is the problem to do the same for >>>>falcon? >>>> >>>>What I am missing? >>> >>>I can use that book, but it is very small, and I didn't implement book creation >>>out of database. The main Falcon book, falcon.bok, was created out of a database >>>of about 120,000 GM games. It contains about 470,000 positions, whereas the >>>Genesis book has no more than a few tens of thousands of positions of a lower >>>quality (and it doesn't support transpositions). >> >>Movei of today also does not support transpositions and has even less positions >>in the book. >> >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>>I can add that I have no idea how to create books in BOK or CTG format and how >>>>to read them >>> >>>Feed the interface a pgn database. It will take care of the rest :) >>> >>> >>>>and I see no reason to think about that problem instead of thinking >>>>how to compile a book out of a pgn database(at this point I do not consider book >>>>as important and my book consist only small number of lines that were written >>>>manually). >>> >>>I totally disagree with you about this. IMO opening book is one of the most >>>important parts of the program. Look at the games in Graz, many games were >>>already decided after the opening phase... >> >>look at the following game >> >>http://f50.parsimony.net/forum200336/messages/1101.htm >> >>Movei was out of book at move 3 and won the game. >>Note that I know that movei is not only weaker than Fritz8 but even >>significantly weaker than Junior5. >> >>Movei also usually do not lose games in WBEC because of book and the main >>problem that I see based on watching games is lack of knowledge or lack of >>search depth. >> >>I believe that a small manually generated book can help to avoid traps and >>usually the worse that you can get is slightly inferior position. >> >>I admit that a big good book can give a small advantage if you get slightly >>better position because the opponent avoid main lines but I consider the >>engine's search and the engine's evaluation as more important. >> >>Uri > >i guess it depends on the strength of the opponent. my experience is that when i >play chess against <~2300 rated opponents, and get a crappy position after the >opening, i often get a second chance to get back in the game. against the GMs >you usually don't get such a second chance. >translated to computer chess that means that once you play in the premier >division of WBEC, you will get killed if you have no decent book. in lower >divisions, the opponents may not be good enough to convert their positions. > >cheers > martin I think that it is also dependent if you are white or black. At least with white you can throw the opponent out of book by uncommon lines that lead to equal position and use a small book. Uri
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