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Subject: Re: Technical question regarding interface for CCT

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 19:34:20 12/12/03

Go up one level in this thread


On December 12, 2003 at 17:13:06, Omid David Tabibi wrote:

>On December 12, 2003 at 17:00:20, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On December 12, 2003 at 15:10:04, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>
>>>On December 12, 2003 at 13:54:27, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On December 12, 2003 at 12:42:17, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On December 12, 2003 at 11:24:26, Georg v. Zimmermann wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Exactly, and thats why you should write your own book routine, instead of using
>>>>>>part of a commercial package.
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't see any problems with this. By using the opening book feature of Fritz
>>>>>or Shredder, you are merely avoiding a waste of time on something already
>>>>>implemented. The big issue is hand tuning the created book, which makes the
>>>>>difference between shredder.bok and falcon.bok :)
>>>>
>>>>You are overlooking the difficulty of choosing a book line also.  There are
>>>>lots of things to consider.  How often it was played, how did the side on
>>>>move do in the resulting games, how recent was the opening played or is it an
>>>>old move that might have a refutation, etc.
>>>>
>>>>I've written book code.  It takes a lot of time.  Not to mention the
>>>>learning facilities that you get for free with the Fritz GUI.  Which is
>>>>yet another important piece of code that you get to avoid writing.
>>>>
>>>
>>>You can similarly argue that everyone should write his own endgame tablebases.
>>>As it also takes a lot of time, and is much harder than opening book.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>No it isn't.  And I have explained this reasoning before.  EGTB probes
>>themselves are deterministic.   Everybody can use the same tables, everybody
>>gets the same egtb.cpp probe code, everybody gets the identical same result
>>when they call the probe code with the same position.  So there is no
>>"decision-making" inside there.  How you _use_ those results can vary, but
>>then that is outside the probes.
>
>No, I'm not talking about Nalimov access codes, but the actual tablebases. One
>can argue that everyone should write his own tablebases, instead of using
>Nalimov's... That is a far more complicated task than creating an opening book.
>

There is _still_ a difference.  If you produce a table for KRPKR, you will
have _no_ new information not in the Nalimov KRPKR table, nor will the Nalimov
KRPKR table have any information yours doesn't have.  IE logical equivalency.

Books are _not_ logically equivalent.  Book selection code is not either.
Nor is book learning code.


>
>
>>
>>A book is different.  I've written lots of book code variations over the last
>>few years, each was different, each was a lot of work, and each made real
>>decisions about the game.  Learning is an example of things done by commercial
>>GUIS, and that should _not_ be shared code.
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Georg
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I totally disagree with you about this. IMO opening book is one of the most
>>>>>>>important parts of the program. Look at the games in Graz, many games were
>>>>>>>already decided after the opening phase...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Uri



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