Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 14:13:53 12/14/03
Go up one level in this thread
On December 14, 2003 at 02:52:05, Johan de Koning wrote: >On December 12, 2003 at 22:46:29, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On December 12, 2003 at 01:46:17, Johan de Koning wrote: >> >>>On December 10, 2003 at 10:23:29, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On December 10, 2003 at 02:52:24, Johan de Koning wrote: >>>> >>>>\>>chose this route. It might be painful. It was certainly avoidable. >>>>> >>>>>You know you're not doing anyone a favor by leaving the ICGA, and >>>>>certainly not yourself. So I'm asking you to think twice before you >>>>>put your money where your mouth is. >>>>> >>>>>... Johan >>>> >>>>My point is that in 1977, I helped form an organization for certain specific >>>>reasons. That organization has completely disconnected itself from the original >>>>purpose(s) it was formed for. IE it should be at the front of the pack with >>>>using automatic interfaces. It isn't. It should have reasonable rules that >>>>work with todays plug-in engine designs. It doesn't. It should provide TDs >>>>that make consistent decisions. One year the GUI is correct, the next year >>>>the engine is what counts, etc. Not consistent. And finally it should >>>>promote computer chess around the world. That's pretty obviously not being >>>>done. >>>> >>>>Now remind me exactly why I would join such an organization again? Should I >>>>enjoy reviewing papers for them (hard work). Should I enjoy attending events >>>>where there is a major debacle every year? Etc. >>> >>>While we're in should-should-should mode: yes you should. >>> >>>And, since the ICGA is still *the* world wide organization, you should >>>enjoy (relatively at least) staying part of it. >>> >>>And, since walking away never makes things better, you shouldn't. >>>Not to mention the fact that walking back will hurt, and not walking >>>back will also hurt. >> >>Here I disagree. > >I don't seem to grasp exactly what you're disagreeing with. > >> The ICCA/ICGA/ECGA/etc has abdicated its responsibilities as >>originally defined in 1977. > >A lot of things have been thought and said and written in 1977. >A lot of things have changed since then. >A lot of things have not changed. > >If you focus on the things that could be different in a parallel >universe according to Dr Bob, you might think all the differences >are improvements. With 25 years of hindsight on the real universe >it is obvious that the untested parallel universe must be close to >heaven, if not better than heaven. > >Unfortunately, universes are just like chess programs. There was >always the next decade in which they would be unbeatable. There >was always that list of brilliant ideas that would make it happen. However, many ideas _still_ work. Look at major international conferences. Note where they have met for the last N years, and where they are meeting for the planned future. They go "all over" for the obvious reasons. That is _still_ an important concept. Many that will never leave their continent of origin should _still_ be exposed to international competitions. > >But unlike universes, the programs *were* tested against reality, >and we all know the result. Very few brilliant ideas turned out >to be usable while many brilliant ideas turned out to be simply >counterprodctive. And some ideas are neutral, like adding correct >ICGA/FIDE draw claiming for no reason. :-) > >But let's get back to 1977. The Internet did hardly exist, hence >there were no 1000s of opinions, and everything was fine. There >may have been some cock-ups but we will never know because they >weren't a big deal to the participants. So nothing has really >changed, except for the 1000s of opinions. In 1977 we had usenet news already. I can't say how wide-spread it was, but within the US and Canada, at least, it was huge... > >> There are now alternatives, ICC being a good >>example. The events are fun. People still chat. And perhaps we will find >>other ways to do face-to-face events without that 2-week time requirement that >>makes them very painful at the moment. >> >>>>ICC is so much more enjoyable, and I actually get to play games vs GM players >>>>regularly, something I've never gotten to do at an ICCA / ICGA event. :) >>> >>>ICC and ICGA are not mutuallay exclusive. >>>By all means, enjoy ICC as much as you can. >>>Personally I enjoy sleeping, and in my dreams I get to actually finger >>>and [BLEEPETYBLEEP]. Which is not allowed at ICGA events. :-) >> >>Actually it does happen. I believe Frans was [bleepetybleeped] in Graz. :) > >LOL and ROTFL > >... Johan :)
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