Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 14:39:43 12/14/03
Go up one level in this thread
On December 14, 2003 at 17:08:18, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >On December 14, 2003 at 16:57:26, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On December 14, 2003 at 09:13:12, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >> >>>On December 14, 2003 at 08:52:57, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On December 14, 2003 at 07:17:13, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>> >>>>>On December 14, 2003 at 00:02:46, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On December 13, 2003 at 19:15:00, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On December 13, 2003 at 19:02:23, Sune Fischer wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On December 13, 2003 at 18:29:42, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On December 13, 2003 at 18:12:17, Russell Reagan wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On December 13, 2003 at 05:31:25, Amir Ban wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Well, if without Chessbase engines you'll have a better event and make progress, >>>>>>>>>>>I won't stand in your way. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Your statement sounds like the people who tried to hold on to DOS too long when >>>>>>>>>>Windows (and other multitasking operating systems) were clearly the future. >>>>>>>>>>"Well, if without real mode you'll have better programs and make progress, I >>>>>>>>>>won't stand in your way." You don't hear too many of those people these days. Is >>>>>>>>>>Ed Schröder the only one left? :) Clearly, multiuser and multitasking operating >>>>>>>>>>systems are progress over DOS. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>45 participants is a heck of a lot more than 14. If there are 40 participants >>>>>>>>>>instead, that's still a heck of a lot more than 14, with plenty of strong >>>>>>>>>>competition. If we had this kind of participation along with the Chessbase >>>>>>>>>>engines, that would be great, but I'll take 40+ participants with no Chessbase >>>>>>>>>>participants over 14 including Chessbase participants. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>What was the average rating in Graz? What is the average rating in CCT? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>By this logic the tournament would have been even better with only Shredder, >>>>>>>>Junior and Fritz. >>>>>>>>The others just dragged down the rating, obviously. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>OK, let me put it this way: how many top programs participated in Graz? How many >>>>>>>will participate in CCT? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Having a chess championship without Junior/Fritz/Shredder is like having a >>>>>>>football worldcup without Brazil, Italy, Germany, England... (and if like CCT >>>>>>>you don't have any "drug tests", then Argentina will easily win, thanks to >>>>>>>Maradona :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>If quantity is the only important factor for you, then you can take 100 free >>>>>>>>>winboard engines, run a tournament on your computer, and crown the winner with >>>>>>>>>the world champion title. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Quantity is important, quantity means support, interest and recognition. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Where was Tiger, where was Rebel, Ruffian, SmarThink, Crafty, Yace... in your >>>>>>>>little shootout? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Had they thought they had any chance to win the championship, they would have >>>>>>>shown up. >>>>>> >>>>>>That statement is so far beyond stupid... it really doesn't deserve a >>>>>>response. Drop over to ICC tonight or tomorrow night, try the quad opteron >>>>>>Crafty on for size in a game or two. Then come back and make that statement. >>>>>>It's been hitting 9M+ nodes per second and is _not_ a pushover. >>>>> >>>>>Brutus has been hitting 20M+ nodes per second in Graz, so what? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>I could >>>>>>probably have shown up with a 16-way machine at the very least. Do you _really_ >>>>>>think it would have no chance? :) >>>>> >>>>>It is up to you to think about your chances. Had you thought you had real >>>>>chances, you would have shown up. >>>>> >>>>>Again, Brutus had a far better evaluation than Crafty, far better search, and >>>>>far better nps, and it only ended 4th. >>>> >>>>How do you know that brutus had better evaluation >>> >>>?!? >>>I saw the evaluations. >>> >>> >>>>and better search than crafty? >>>> >>> >>>Search depth, branching factor... Crafty's search and evaluation hasn't changed >>>much in the recent years. >>> >>> >>> >>>>> >>>>>On the same hardware, Falcon never scores less than 80% against Crafty, and it >>>>>only ended 10th. >>>> >>>>Did you test against 19.06 and not 19.03?(results that I read suggest that 19.06 >>>>is an improvement) >>> >>>How much improvement? 1% speedup? 2% speedup? 5% speedup? But the same search >>>and evaluation I guess. >> >>You should stop guessing. I _know_. >> >>What better source than to ask??? > >OK, I'm asking. ? OK. 19.3 to 19.6 has no speed changes to speak of. Several evaluation bugs were fixed... Change to search extension starting point. Etc. > > > >> >> >>> >>> >>>>Did you test with own books and not with Fritz8.ctg? >>> >>>I don't think it will matter. You use your own books to direct the engine into >>>positions it plays well. Against Crafty, Falcon has no problems in any kind of >>>position. (This is not true for Junior for example. In the last test, Falcon >>>beat Junior 4.5-1.5, but I don't think this difference of strength will hold >>>true if I test Junior using its tournament book.) >> >>Please feel free to come to ICC and demonstrate such outright and overwhelming >>superiority. Programs like Shredder, Junior, Tiger, etc are _not_ beating me >>80% of the time. >> >>It is much easier to actually run the experiment than to guess... >> >>I'm always available... >> > >In turn, I would like to invite you to Israel next year, to participate in a >real tournament. I'm sure getting the title World Computer Chess Champion will >silence any critics. I have two of 'em in my office, I should point out. I don't have anything to prove there. I suspect that your visiting ICC will be _far_ cheaper than going to Israel. And _neither_ of us has to miss any work or classes. > > > >> >>> >>> >>>> >>>>Uri
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