Author: Omid David Tabibi
Date: 14:42:21 12/14/03
Go up one level in this thread
On December 14, 2003 at 17:36:36, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>On December 14, 2003 at 17:05:18, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>
>>On December 14, 2003 at 16:52:54, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On December 14, 2003 at 07:17:13, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>
>>>>On December 14, 2003 at 00:02:46, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On December 13, 2003 at 19:15:00, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On December 13, 2003 at 19:02:23, Sune Fischer wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On December 13, 2003 at 18:29:42, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On December 13, 2003 at 18:12:17, Russell Reagan wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On December 13, 2003 at 05:31:25, Amir Ban wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Well, if without Chessbase engines you'll have a better event and make progress,
>>>>>>>>>>I won't stand in your way.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Your statement sounds like the people who tried to hold on to DOS too long when
>>>>>>>>>Windows (and other multitasking operating systems) were clearly the future.
>>>>>>>>>"Well, if without real mode you'll have better programs and make progress, I
>>>>>>>>>won't stand in your way." You don't hear too many of those people these days. Is
>>>>>>>>>Ed Schröder the only one left? :) Clearly, multiuser and multitasking operating
>>>>>>>>>systems are progress over DOS.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>45 participants is a heck of a lot more than 14. If there are 40 participants
>>>>>>>>>instead, that's still a heck of a lot more than 14, with plenty of strong
>>>>>>>>>competition. If we had this kind of participation along with the Chessbase
>>>>>>>>>engines, that would be great, but I'll take 40+ participants with no Chessbase
>>>>>>>>>participants over 14 including Chessbase participants.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>What was the average rating in Graz? What is the average rating in CCT?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>By this logic the tournament would have been even better with only Shredder,
>>>>>>>Junior and Fritz.
>>>>>>>The others just dragged down the rating, obviously.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>OK, let me put it this way: how many top programs participated in Graz? How many
>>>>>>will participate in CCT?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Having a chess championship without Junior/Fritz/Shredder is like having a
>>>>>>football worldcup without Brazil, Italy, Germany, England... (and if like CCT
>>>>>>you don't have any "drug tests", then Argentina will easily win, thanks to
>>>>>>Maradona :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>If quantity is the only important factor for you, then you can take 100 free
>>>>>>>>winboard engines, run a tournament on your computer, and crown the winner with
>>>>>>>>the world champion title.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Quantity is important, quantity means support, interest and recognition.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Where was Tiger, where was Rebel, Ruffian, SmarThink, Crafty, Yace... in your
>>>>>>>little shootout?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Had they thought they had any chance to win the championship, they would have
>>>>>>shown up.
>>>>>
>>>>>That statement is so far beyond stupid... it really doesn't deserve a
>>>>>response. Drop over to ICC tonight or tomorrow night, try the quad opteron
>>>>>Crafty on for size in a game or two. Then come back and make that statement.
>>>>>It's been hitting 9M+ nodes per second and is _not_ a pushover.
>>>>
>>>>Brutus has been hitting 20M+ nodes per second in Graz, so what?
>>>
>>>So if you think I have no chance of winning, hop over to ICC and show me
>>>how inferior I am on hardware that would be 1/4 the speed (or less) of
>>>what I would have shown up with had I made the WCCC.
>>>
>>>_that_ is "what".
>>>
>>>Did _you_ think that you had a good chance of winning? Did you go? What
>>>was the reason?
>>
>>Yes, I thought I had reasonable chances of winning. It turned out that I had
>>heavily underestimated the importance of hardware (you can't beat any strong
>>engine running at 7M nps, when you are at 400k nps), but that is another story.
>>
>
>OK, then why would _I_ have chosen to not come, because I had no chance of
>winning, when I could do 9M on the machine I am using today, and would probably
>have been able to find a machine at _least_ 4x faster???
>
>That is my point. Your basic assumption is stupid and wrong. I played in the
>1989 WCCC event knowing I had practically no chance of beating deep thought
>with 16 processors. But I _was_ there.
Show me where I said "you will come to WCCC only if you think you have a chance
to win"? What I said was "if you think you have a chance to win you will come to
WCCC". You surely know enough about logics to know that
A -> B
does not necessarily mean
B -> A
:)
>
>
>>But more importantly, I went there to test the waters in preparation for WCCC
>>2004. That's also why I didn't take my own hardware to Graz.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I could
>>>>>probably have shown up with a 16-way machine at the very least. Do you _really_
>>>>>think it would have no chance? :)
>>>>
>>>>It is up to you to think about your chances. Had you thought you had real
>>>>chances, you would have shown up.
>>>
>>>Again, you are being stupid beyond belief. And that is _still_ the most
>>>arrogant, stupid statement I have ever heard. I'm glad you know _exactly_
>>>why I didn't show up. I think I know _exactly_ why you can't figure any of
>>>this out either.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Again, Brutus had a far better evaluation than Crafty, far better search, and
>>>>far better nps, and it only ended 4th.
>>>
>>>far better evaluation based on what? far better search based on what?
>>>
>>>Do you believe all the hyperbole you hear? I've played games against
>>>Brutus on ICC.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>On the same hardware, Falcon never scores less than 80% against Crafty, and it
>>>>only ended 10th.
>>>
>>>So, I would not be on the same hardware. I'd first doubt that you could
>>>beat me 4 of every 5 games on equal hardware. I don't believe you are
>>>over 200 points better. But second, I'd bet I could win 80% at 40M nps
>>>vs whatever you can produce. Again, it would be _competitive_. Whether it
>>>would win or not is not the issue. I'd certainly have a reasonable chance of
>>>winning...
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I've explained why _I_ didn't go. It had _nothing_ to do with the probability
>>>>>of winning being too low. _I_ entered ACM and WCCC events when deep thought
>>>>>was playing, so it obviously didn't stop me back then.
>>>>>
>>>>>Stop with the short one-liners that have _zero_ basis in reality. Or come over
>>>>>to ICC for a _real_ dose of reality...
>>>>>
>>>
>>>I notice you failed to respond to the above. No answer?
>>
>>I didn't notice this part of your message. I will surely come to ICC, provided
>>that I first bridge some technical problems which were posted at the root of
>>this thread and still show up in the subject line...
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Could it be they didn't find it worth the trouble, or were they just too busy
>>>>>>>preparing for CCT6?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>-S.
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