Author: Omid David Tabibi
Date: 14:47:43 12/14/03
Go up one level in this thread
On December 14, 2003 at 17:39:43, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On December 14, 2003 at 17:08:18, Omid David Tabibi wrote: > >>On December 14, 2003 at 16:57:26, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On December 14, 2003 at 09:13:12, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>> >>>>On December 14, 2003 at 08:52:57, Uri Blass wrote: >>>> >>>>>On December 14, 2003 at 07:17:13, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On December 14, 2003 at 00:02:46, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On December 13, 2003 at 19:15:00, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On December 13, 2003 at 19:02:23, Sune Fischer wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On December 13, 2003 at 18:29:42, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On December 13, 2003 at 18:12:17, Russell Reagan wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>On December 13, 2003 at 05:31:25, Amir Ban wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Well, if without Chessbase engines you'll have a better event and make progress, >>>>>>>>>>>>I won't stand in your way. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Your statement sounds like the people who tried to hold on to DOS too long when >>>>>>>>>>>Windows (and other multitasking operating systems) were clearly the future. >>>>>>>>>>>"Well, if without real mode you'll have better programs and make progress, I >>>>>>>>>>>won't stand in your way." You don't hear too many of those people these days. Is >>>>>>>>>>>Ed Schröder the only one left? :) Clearly, multiuser and multitasking operating >>>>>>>>>>>systems are progress over DOS. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>45 participants is a heck of a lot more than 14. If there are 40 participants >>>>>>>>>>>instead, that's still a heck of a lot more than 14, with plenty of strong >>>>>>>>>>>competition. If we had this kind of participation along with the Chessbase >>>>>>>>>>>engines, that would be great, but I'll take 40+ participants with no Chessbase >>>>>>>>>>>participants over 14 including Chessbase participants. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>What was the average rating in Graz? What is the average rating in CCT? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>By this logic the tournament would have been even better with only Shredder, >>>>>>>>>Junior and Fritz. >>>>>>>>>The others just dragged down the rating, obviously. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>OK, let me put it this way: how many top programs participated in Graz? How many >>>>>>>>will participate in CCT? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Having a chess championship without Junior/Fritz/Shredder is like having a >>>>>>>>football worldcup without Brazil, Italy, Germany, England... (and if like CCT >>>>>>>>you don't have any "drug tests", then Argentina will easily win, thanks to >>>>>>>>Maradona :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>If quantity is the only important factor for you, then you can take 100 free >>>>>>>>>>winboard engines, run a tournament on your computer, and crown the winner with >>>>>>>>>>the world champion title. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Quantity is important, quantity means support, interest and recognition. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Where was Tiger, where was Rebel, Ruffian, SmarThink, Crafty, Yace... in your >>>>>>>>>little shootout? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Had they thought they had any chance to win the championship, they would have >>>>>>>>shown up. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>That statement is so far beyond stupid... it really doesn't deserve a >>>>>>>response. Drop over to ICC tonight or tomorrow night, try the quad opteron >>>>>>>Crafty on for size in a game or two. Then come back and make that statement. >>>>>>>It's been hitting 9M+ nodes per second and is _not_ a pushover. >>>>>> >>>>>>Brutus has been hitting 20M+ nodes per second in Graz, so what? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>I could >>>>>>>probably have shown up with a 16-way machine at the very least. Do you _really_ >>>>>>>think it would have no chance? :) >>>>>> >>>>>>It is up to you to think about your chances. Had you thought you had real >>>>>>chances, you would have shown up. >>>>>> >>>>>>Again, Brutus had a far better evaluation than Crafty, far better search, and >>>>>>far better nps, and it only ended 4th. >>>>> >>>>>How do you know that brutus had better evaluation >>>> >>>>?!? >>>>I saw the evaluations. >>>> >>>> >>>>>and better search than crafty? >>>>> >>>> >>>>Search depth, branching factor... Crafty's search and evaluation hasn't changed >>>>much in the recent years. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>On the same hardware, Falcon never scores less than 80% against Crafty, and it >>>>>>only ended 10th. >>>>> >>>>>Did you test against 19.06 and not 19.03?(results that I read suggest that 19.06 >>>>>is an improvement) >>>> >>>>How much improvement? 1% speedup? 2% speedup? 5% speedup? But the same search >>>>and evaluation I guess. >>> >>>You should stop guessing. I _know_. >>> >>>What better source than to ask??? >> >>OK, I'm asking. ? > >OK. 19.3 to 19.6 has no speed changes to speak of. Several evaluation >bugs were fixed... Change to search extension starting point. Etc. Well, I will give it a try :) > > >> >> >> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Did you test with own books and not with Fritz8.ctg? >>>> >>>>I don't think it will matter. You use your own books to direct the engine into >>>>positions it plays well. Against Crafty, Falcon has no problems in any kind of >>>>position. (This is not true for Junior for example. In the last test, Falcon >>>>beat Junior 4.5-1.5, but I don't think this difference of strength will hold >>>>true if I test Junior using its tournament book.) >>> >>>Please feel free to come to ICC and demonstrate such outright and overwhelming >>>superiority. Programs like Shredder, Junior, Tiger, etc are _not_ beating me >>>80% of the time. >>> >>>It is much easier to actually run the experiment than to guess... >>> >>>I'm always available... >>> >> >>In turn, I would like to invite you to Israel next year, to participate in a >>real tournament. I'm sure getting the title World Computer Chess Champion will >>silence any critics. > >I have two of 'em in my office, I should point out. I don't have anything >to prove there. > >I suspect that your visiting ICC will be _far_ cheaper than going to Israel. Yes, if I manage to get the damned books to work... (currently the Arena book doesn't support transpositions, and the ChessPartner book plays a large subset of moves with no way to limit the selection) >And _neither_ of us has to miss any work or classes. If it is so critical for you not to miss any classes, can't you find a replacement for one or two lessons? When coming to Graz I had to cancel one lesson in an Algorithms course I teach, but instead I asked someone to replace me in that lesson. > > > > > >> >> >> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>Uri
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.