Author: Harald Faber
Date: 02:06:29 12/15/03
Go up one level in this thread
On December 15, 2003 at 02:29:13, Kurt Utzinger wrote: >On December 15, 2003 at 01:45:44, Harald Faber wrote: > >>On December 14, 2003 at 18:59:53, William Rex wrote: >> >>>On December 14, 2003 at 16:02:26, Kurt Utzinger wrote: >>> >>>>******************************************************************** >>>>Athlon 1.3/256 MB, using Fritz 8 GUI >>>>time control: 120'/60 plus 60'/30 plus 30' >>>>ponder=off, no books, no EGTB, no learning >>>>games starting with 5 pre-set positions >>>>1.e4 / 1.d4 / 1.c4 / 1.g3 / 1.f4 >> >> >>They use a completely different setup! >> >>To point the differences out: >> >>1. SSDF uses *2* PCs >>2. SSDF plays ponder=on >>3. SSDF plays 120'/40+60'/20+60'/20+.... >>4. SSDF plays WITH books >>5. SSDF plays WITH TBs >>6. SSDF plays WITH learning >>7. SSDF plays without such stupid (IMO) setup positions. > > Hi Harald > You are definitely wrong as far as Junior 8 is > concerned. All other engines had the same handicap > in NBE 2003 but none of them did so badly. The only > explanation is that the "naked" Junior 8 has weaknesses > other engines do not have. As to Shredder 7.04: you can > run this engine under conditions whatsoever, it will > still be top. This can't be said to Junior 8. And in > our opinion the missing opening book was the main reason > why Junior 8 got such a bad result. When we play matches > with books [with/without EGTB, with/no learning] Junior 8 > always gets very good results in our tests. > Kurt Indeed Shredder is the best allround program and Junior depends on special conditions. But the conditions under which Junior plays well are different than yours and several other tests run. One important point is the book. Hundreds of posts and opinions have been written how senseful the usage is. However, Junior 8 is sold WITH book. Judge yourself and decide if you want to castrate Junior by disabling this book. Furthermore permanent brain is another point Junior absolutely needs. And finally, 40/120 plus pb is much slower than 60/120 without pb. Sure, one can say: Bad program or bad engine design when it needs own book, permanent brain and all the 5man TBs. But this is a COMMON setup, even with the 5man TBs. I cannot remember an offical tournament (Thueringen, Aufsess, Leiden, Maastricht, Graz, New York, etc.) where these conditions have not been fulfilled. So I do not see any reason why complain. It is "only" the engine testers/users who use a worse setup and get worse results. Is this a wonder? Certainly not.
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