Author: Andre van Ark
Date: 09:56:25 12/15/03
Go up one level in this thread
On December 15, 2003 at 05:06:29, Harald Faber wrote: >On December 15, 2003 at 02:29:13, Kurt Utzinger wrote: > >>On December 15, 2003 at 01:45:44, Harald Faber wrote: >> >>>On December 14, 2003 at 18:59:53, William Rex wrote: >>> >>>>On December 14, 2003 at 16:02:26, Kurt Utzinger wrote: >>>> >>>>>******************************************************************** >>>>>Athlon 1.3/256 MB, using Fritz 8 GUI >>>>>time control: 120'/60 plus 60'/30 plus 30' >>>>>ponder=off, no books, no EGTB, no learning >>>>>games starting with 5 pre-set positions >>>>>1.e4 / 1.d4 / 1.c4 / 1.g3 / 1.f4 >>> >>> >>>They use a completely different setup! >>> >>>To point the differences out: >>> >>>1. SSDF uses *2* PCs >>>2. SSDF plays ponder=on >>>3. SSDF plays 120'/40+60'/20+60'/20+.... >>>4. SSDF plays WITH books >>>5. SSDF plays WITH TBs >>>6. SSDF plays WITH learning >>>7. SSDF plays without such stupid (IMO) setup positions. >> >> Hi Harald >> You are definitely wrong as far as Junior 8 is >> concerned. All other engines had the same handicap >> in NBE 2003 but none of them did so badly. The only >> explanation is that the "naked" Junior 8 has weaknesses >> other engines do not have. As to Shredder 7.04: you can >> run this engine under conditions whatsoever, it will >> still be top. This can't be said to Junior 8. And in >> our opinion the missing opening book was the main reason >> why Junior 8 got such a bad result. When we play matches >> with books [with/without EGTB, with/no learning] Junior 8 >> always gets very good results in our tests. >> Kurt > >Indeed Shredder is the best allround program and Junior depends on special >conditions. But the conditions under which Junior plays well are different than >yours and several other tests run. One important point is the book. Hundreds of >posts and opinions have been written how senseful the usage is. However, Junior >8 is sold WITH book. Judge yourself and decide if you want to castrate Junior by >disabling this book. >Furthermore permanent brain is another point Junior absolutely needs. And >finally, 40/120 plus pb is much slower than 60/120 without pb. > >Sure, one can say: Bad program or bad engine design when it needs own book, >permanent brain and all the 5man TBs. But this is a COMMON setup, even with the >5man TBs. >I cannot remember an offical tournament (Thueringen, Aufsess, Leiden, >Maastricht, Graz, New York, etc.) where these conditions have not been >fulfilled. So I do not see any reason why complain. It is "only" the engine >testers/users who use a worse setup and get worse results. Is this a wonder? >Certainly not. Hi Harald, Most of us are engine-testers and not book testers ;-) André
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