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Subject: Booktester or enginetester?

Author: Andre van Ark

Date: 09:56:25 12/15/03

Go up one level in this thread


On December 15, 2003 at 05:06:29, Harald Faber wrote:

>On December 15, 2003 at 02:29:13, Kurt Utzinger wrote:
>
>>On December 15, 2003 at 01:45:44, Harald Faber wrote:
>>
>>>On December 14, 2003 at 18:59:53, William Rex wrote:
>>>
>>>>On December 14, 2003 at 16:02:26, Kurt Utzinger wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>********************************************************************
>>>>>Athlon 1.3/256 MB, using Fritz 8 GUI
>>>>>time control: 120'/60 plus 60'/30 plus 30'
>>>>>ponder=off, no books, no EGTB, no learning
>>>>>games starting with 5 pre-set positions
>>>>>1.e4  /  1.d4  /  1.c4  /  1.g3  /  1.f4
>>>
>>>
>>>They use a completely different setup!
>>>
>>>To point the differences out:
>>>
>>>1. SSDF uses *2* PCs
>>>2. SSDF plays ponder=on
>>>3. SSDF plays 120'/40+60'/20+60'/20+....
>>>4. SSDF plays WITH books
>>>5. SSDF plays WITH TBs
>>>6. SSDF plays WITH learning
>>>7. SSDF plays without such stupid (IMO) setup positions.
>>
>>     Hi Harald
>>     You are definitely wrong as far as Junior 8 is
>>     concerned. All other engines had the same handicap
>>     in NBE 2003 but none of them did so badly. The only
>>     explanation is that the "naked" Junior 8 has weaknesses
>>     other engines do not have. As to Shredder 7.04: you can
>>     run this engine under conditions whatsoever, it will
>>     still be top. This can't be said to Junior 8. And in
>>     our opinion the missing opening book was the main reason
>>     why Junior 8 got such a bad result. When we play matches
>>     with books [with/without EGTB, with/no learning] Junior 8
>>     always gets very good results in our tests.
>>     Kurt
>
>Indeed Shredder is the best allround program and Junior depends on special
>conditions. But the conditions under which Junior plays well are different than
>yours and several other tests run. One important point is the book. Hundreds of
>posts and opinions have been written how senseful the usage is. However, Junior
>8 is sold WITH book. Judge yourself and decide if you want to castrate Junior by
>disabling this book.
>Furthermore permanent brain is another point Junior absolutely needs. And
>finally, 40/120 plus pb is much slower than 60/120 without pb.
>
>Sure, one can say: Bad program or bad engine design when it needs own book,
>permanent brain and all the 5man TBs. But this is a COMMON setup, even with the
>5man TBs.
>I cannot remember an offical tournament (Thueringen, Aufsess, Leiden,
>Maastricht, Graz, New York, etc.) where these conditions have not been
>fulfilled. So I do not see any reason why complain. It is "only" the engine
>testers/users who use a worse setup and get worse results. Is this a wonder?
>Certainly not.

Hi Harald,

Most of us are engine-testers and not book testers ;-)

André




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