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Subject: Re: Technical question regarding interface for CCT

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 18:04:57 12/15/03

Go up one level in this thread


On December 14, 2003 at 09:59:30, Uri Blass wrote:

>On December 14, 2003 at 09:26:24, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>
>>On December 14, 2003 at 09:18:21, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On December 14, 2003 at 09:01:26, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>
>>>>On December 14, 2003 at 08:34:31, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On December 14, 2003 at 08:10:43, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On December 14, 2003 at 07:58:41, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On December 14, 2003 at 06:00:10, Tord Romstad wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On December 13, 2003 at 19:18:58, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On December 13, 2003 at 04:26:16, Tord Romstad wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>The easiest solution to this is to spend another afternoon on adding opening
>>>>>>>>>>book
>>>>>>>>>>code to the engine.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>How exactly, if you don't know anything about the format (ctg) you are going to
>>>>>>>>>code for?!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Why is it so important to use exactly the same book?  Just do like almost
>>>>>>>>everybody
>>>>>>>>else, and build a book from a PGN database.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Tord
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I do not know how almost everybody does it.
>>>>>>>Did you look first in free source code like book.c of crafty to understand how
>>>>>>>other do it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Most programmers don't get into the hassle of writing their own book format.
>>>>>>Instead, the time is better spent improving the automatically generated book in
>>>>>>one of the common formats.
>>>>>
>>>>>I believe that most of the opponent of movei in Leo's tournament use their own
>>>>>book format but I may be wrong.
>>>>
>>>>I was referring to most programmers in WCCC. At least half the participants were
>>>>using CTG or BOK formats.
>>>>
>>>>Leo's tournament is in WinBoard, which does not have any book support.
>>>
>>>I know but the number of programs that participate in Leo's tournament is
>>>clearly bigger.
>>>
>>>I simply get testing time for my program thanks to the fact that I support
>>>winboard so I have more motivation to care about having book under winboard and
>>>not to care about having book under Fritz
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I believe that using an existing format is wrong because it means that I have no
>>>>>freedom to change the book dependent on the time control.
>>>>>
>>>>>I believe that it is better to have a bigger book for blitz when the logic is
>>>>>that at longer time control I expect the engine to find more often by itself
>>>>>better moves when in blitz it may be better to trust some known alternative that
>>>>>was not played a lot.
>>>>
>>>>You can create several books, or set the interface to play a larger subset of
>>>>opening moves.
>>>
>>>I understand but I do not like to be dependent on interface and I have less
>>>freedom by doing it.
>>>
>>>I also think about not playing automatically book moves in 0 seconds(except
>>>moves that were checked manually) in order to avoid stupid blunders that I have
>>>bad luck to have in the pgn file and to use 1/10 of the normal time to calculate
>>>to see if I can trust the book.
>>
>>If you want to avoid book mistakes do the following:
>>
>>Take a pgn database of 2500+ rated players, and set the play threshold to 4
>>games, and 2 wins at least. It is very unlikely that a move played by 4 strong
>>players is a "stupid blunder", especially if it results in a victory in 2 of
>>them.
>>
>>But I think that using such a high quality database, 1 win out of 2 (or 3) is a
>>better practical value than 2 out of 4.
>
>I understand but I have only 2 options not to trust a book move and to use
>normal search or immediately play it and I prefer to have a third option based
>on statistics and it is to play it only if some calculation suggest that it is
>not a blunder.
>
>Uri

If you want to avoid "book mistakes" then don't use a book.  Otherwise there
will _always_ be errors.  Typos in the book.  Bad analysis.  Stupid blunders.
Etc..  It's just a part of using a book.  There are steps to take to minimize
them, but certainly not to "eliminate them".




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