Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 18:04:57 12/15/03
Go up one level in this thread
On December 14, 2003 at 09:59:30, Uri Blass wrote: >On December 14, 2003 at 09:26:24, Omid David Tabibi wrote: > >>On December 14, 2003 at 09:18:21, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On December 14, 2003 at 09:01:26, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>> >>>>On December 14, 2003 at 08:34:31, Uri Blass wrote: >>>> >>>>>On December 14, 2003 at 08:10:43, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On December 14, 2003 at 07:58:41, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On December 14, 2003 at 06:00:10, Tord Romstad wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On December 13, 2003 at 19:18:58, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On December 13, 2003 at 04:26:16, Tord Romstad wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>The easiest solution to this is to spend another afternoon on adding opening >>>>>>>>>>book >>>>>>>>>>code to the engine. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>How exactly, if you don't know anything about the format (ctg) you are going to >>>>>>>>>code for?! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Why is it so important to use exactly the same book? Just do like almost >>>>>>>>everybody >>>>>>>>else, and build a book from a PGN database. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Tord >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I do not know how almost everybody does it. >>>>>>>Did you look first in free source code like book.c of crafty to understand how >>>>>>>other do it? >>>>>> >>>>>>Most programmers don't get into the hassle of writing their own book format. >>>>>>Instead, the time is better spent improving the automatically generated book in >>>>>>one of the common formats. >>>>> >>>>>I believe that most of the opponent of movei in Leo's tournament use their own >>>>>book format but I may be wrong. >>>> >>>>I was referring to most programmers in WCCC. At least half the participants were >>>>using CTG or BOK formats. >>>> >>>>Leo's tournament is in WinBoard, which does not have any book support. >>> >>>I know but the number of programs that participate in Leo's tournament is >>>clearly bigger. >>> >>>I simply get testing time for my program thanks to the fact that I support >>>winboard so I have more motivation to care about having book under winboard and >>>not to care about having book under Fritz >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>I believe that using an existing format is wrong because it means that I have no >>>>>freedom to change the book dependent on the time control. >>>>> >>>>>I believe that it is better to have a bigger book for blitz when the logic is >>>>>that at longer time control I expect the engine to find more often by itself >>>>>better moves when in blitz it may be better to trust some known alternative that >>>>>was not played a lot. >>>> >>>>You can create several books, or set the interface to play a larger subset of >>>>opening moves. >>> >>>I understand but I do not like to be dependent on interface and I have less >>>freedom by doing it. >>> >>>I also think about not playing automatically book moves in 0 seconds(except >>>moves that were checked manually) in order to avoid stupid blunders that I have >>>bad luck to have in the pgn file and to use 1/10 of the normal time to calculate >>>to see if I can trust the book. >> >>If you want to avoid book mistakes do the following: >> >>Take a pgn database of 2500+ rated players, and set the play threshold to 4 >>games, and 2 wins at least. It is very unlikely that a move played by 4 strong >>players is a "stupid blunder", especially if it results in a victory in 2 of >>them. >> >>But I think that using such a high quality database, 1 win out of 2 (or 3) is a >>better practical value than 2 out of 4. > >I understand but I have only 2 options not to trust a book move and to use >normal search or immediately play it and I prefer to have a third option based >on statistics and it is to play it only if some calculation suggest that it is >not a blunder. > >Uri If you want to avoid "book mistakes" then don't use a book. Otherwise there will _always_ be errors. Typos in the book. Bad analysis. Stupid blunders. Etc.. It's just a part of using a book. There are steps to take to minimize them, but certainly not to "eliminate them".
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