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Subject: Re: Shredder's bug?

Author: Bob Durrett

Date: 15:05:34 12/21/03

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On December 21, 2003 at 12:37:30, Jaime Benito de Valle Ruiz wrote:

>>I don't mean to pry, but I am curious to know the criteria your software uses to
>>select the PV line to be displayed.  Do you somehow identify a critical path
>>leading to a leaf node where the leaf node chosen is no worse than any other
>>evaluated leaf node?  How can you be satisfied that the PV line displayed meets
>>your criteria?  As a user, can I "believe" your PV?
>>
>>Generally, I assume that the first move in any PV is most reliable and that the
>>next move is less reliable, etceteras, due to some sort of horizon effect.  For
>>example, the evaluation of a leaf node position must be done without the normal
>>searching process.  [This is true in spite of the fact that the position
>>evaluation is necessarily sequential because that's the nature of
>>microprocessors, ignoring multithreading.]  I would expect that leaf node
>>evaluations would be less reliable than the evaluations of internal nodes since
>>branches are evaluated.
>>
>>Bob D.
>
>
>The "criteria" is basically the same for all programs (although the pruning and
>other things are different, of course): The engine reaches the current max.
>depth, and chooses the "best move" for the side to move by trying and analysing
>all available moves, and then it assign it a score. Then it goes down one ply,
>undo the last move, tries another one, and then chooses the "best move" for the
>side to play in that new position again. Repeating this process recursively, it
>eventually comes up with a PV and with a score associated to it. If the analysis
>at the leaves is assumed to be perfect, then the PV is also perfect. The
>analysis is far from being perfect for any engine, so the PV....
>Most programs -I guess- update the PV as they search, so if there are no bugs,
>you'll be able to see the real PV associated with the score; any other line will
>give (according to the engine judgement) a worse score (or maybe the same, but
>not better). Shredder is probably extracting the PV from the hash tables, so if
>any position has been re-written during the search for some reason, you get the
>wrong PV. This is just a guess.
>Obviously, a bad evaluation function will lead to stupid PVs in most cases.
>A material-based-only evaluation function will lead to absurd PVs most of the
>time, except for when you blunder.... and then they will find the way to win you
>a pawn or whatever.
>
>Regards,
>
>  Jaime

Thanks for the reply.  I guess I now wonder whether or not other programmers
have chosen to get their PV the same way you do.  Thanks again.  : )

Bob D.



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