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Subject: Re: a challenge to all competent computer chess programmers !

Author: Duncan Roberts

Date: 05:04:33 12/22/03

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On December 22, 2003 at 07:53:11, Ulrich Tuerke wrote:

>On December 22, 2003 at 07:39:06, Duncan Roberts wrote:
>
>>On December 22, 2003 at 07:24:59, Ulrich Tuerke wrote:
>>
>>>On December 22, 2003 at 07:08:09, Duncan Roberts wrote:
>>>
>>>>Different software engines have different strengths and weaknesses in different
>>>>types of positions and I once saw mentioned the idea that one could raise the
>>>>elo level of chess software by 150 points by having some software which would
>>>>interface with the top 5 programs and would have all of the strengths and none
>>>>of the weaknesses of each individual program. This would be achieved as the
>>>>interface program would ask the individual program to only play the type of
>>>>position it played best at.
>>>>
>>>>kasparov once mentioned that in certain positions junior plays at 150 elo points
>>>>higher than the competition, on the other hand he said fritz is more 'certain'.
>>>>
>>>>An interface program should be a far tougher challenge for kasparov to crack. It
>>>>would truly reflect the best of computer science against the best chess player.
>>>>
>>>>I do not know much about computer chess, but I assume that to implement this in
>>>>at least a basic way should not take a great deal of time. (a week ?)
>>>>
>>>>Is this right? and if so (although it is easy to ask) why is nobody doing it.?
>>>>
>>>>There must be many good programmers on this site whose chess programs while good
>>>>cannot realistically hope to reach the 'top 10'. Surely (assuming the top 5
>>>>chess program authors co-operate with this) they would be making a much bigger
>>>>contribution to computer chess by implementing an interface program.
>>>>
>>>
>>>So, the interface program has to find out, which engine to invoke in a
>>>particular position. I would guess that this is at least a highly non-trivial
>>>task. -:)
>>>
>>
>>To do it in a basic way it could look, at open, closed, blocked, beginning ,
>>middle and end game.
>>
>>would that be non trivial and should it in theory give it a good improvement. ?
>
>Is it really as easy as this ?
>Can we say, A always plays blocked positions better than B ?
>
>I doubt it.
>

if it is true to say that A plays blocked positions 80% of the time better than
B and if the code to recognise blocked positions works most of the time
then I would have thought it would be trivial to get a good improvement for not
too much work.


>>
>>
>>>I am also quite doubtful whether it really makes sense to switch engines within
>>>a game, this way violating continuity of game. E.G., engine A may thrive for a
>>>position which engine B doesn't like at all.
>>>
>>>BTW, SMK's older project - development of a kind of triple-brain - had gone a
>>>bit into a similar direction. Stephan had 2 different engines, analyzing
>>>simultaneously, and a 3rd program controlling them and making a decision which
>>>result to accept. AFAIK, this project had terminated.
>>>
>>
>>if it did not look at the type of position, and it did not analyze itself  on
>>what basis did it decide which is best ?
>
>IIRC, the decison making program analyzed for instance the main lines coming
>from either engine. Stephan had coded some checks which main-line may look
>"safer" or more reasonable. Or by doing some plausi-checks regarding the
>terminating leaves of the 2 main lines.
>
>Probably, there had been many more criterions like this.
>
>>>
>>>Uli
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>duncan roberts



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