Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 17:13:16 11/23/98
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On November 23, 1998 at 18:47:20, Amir Ban wrote: >On November 23, 1998 at 17:14:28, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On November 23, 1998 at 11:50:01, Amir Ban wrote: >> > >>I'm going to try to keep this simple. Here is a point-blank question: if you >>really believe that nonsensical statement you wrote above, then how can you >>reconcile that with a program that is searching at least 1,000 times faster >>than you, yet only gets to depth 10-11 in the game? If they are not extending >>far more than you could ever hope to then exactly *what* are they doing with >>that factor of 1,000? And remember that they have a pretty simple quiescence >>search and they toss out bummer captures as well, so the work is *not* in >>looking at zillions of captures. > >Seems like you misunderstand another side of this, because you are mistaking me >for a null-mover. > >To get to nominal ply 11, I would have to search at least to my (half-ply) depth >21. If you've ever seen Junior play, you know that that's a lot for a middlegame >position. I'm guessing it will take Junior at least a few days to get there. > >When I do get to that depth, though, I expect to see much more than Deep Blue >sees at its ply 11, because I'm much more heavily extended, and of that, I'm >sure. > >Amir That's my question, however.. They are *only* getting to ply 11. I can get to ply 10 with crafty with null-move *off*. searching under 300K nodes per second. So what do you suppose *they* are doing with that factor of 1,000 nodes? Must be something *very* serious... IE I saw *Socrates "outsearch" deep thought by a ply or two in Cape May (if you look at depth reported on the screen). And Deep Blue isn't going any deeper today it seems. So those nodes are going *somewhere* and the only place I can figure is extensions... They have always been liberal (ie they allow 1 ply of extensions for *every* ply in the search if you read their JICCA paper. You can't go beyond that and have a search that terminates... and even 1:1 is on the ragged edge... That was my only point here... that they follow some things *very* deeply. I sometimes see 24 ply variations from Crafty on a 12 ply search. But when I watched Deep Thought I saw many 30+ ply variations in tactical cases, and that doesn't touch the last 4-5 plies + captures that don't get displayed...
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