Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Junior-Crafty hardware user experiment - 19th and final game

Author: Amir Ban

Date: 06:13:07 12/23/03

Go up one level in this thread


On December 23, 2003 at 08:36:29, Anthony Cozzie wrote:

>On December 23, 2003 at 08:09:34, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On December 23, 2003 at 06:47:18, Amir Ban wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Thanks for running this match and for the interesting commentary.
>>>
>>>My point in playing this match was never to show how weak crafty is, but
>>>something different: Too many programmers and posters in this forum take the
>>>speed issue way too seriously. They don't understand the importance of
>>>evaluation, and when they do think about it, they think it's about pawn
>>>structure and a few super-rare endgame tableaus.
>>>
>>>I also needed to check that I've not been wasting my efforts in the last few
>>>years.
>>>
>>>Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukka,
>>>Amir
>>
>>I do not claim that evaluation is not important but my opinion is that search is
>>not thing that is less important.
>>
>>I also know that inspite of the fact that you say that evaluation is important
>>your evaluation takes only 20% of Junior's time(I do not know about latest
>>Junior but I know about previous post of you).
>>
>>How is it possible?
>>
>>Did not you find important things to evaluate that it is simply impossible to
>>evaluate them fast?
>>
>>For example let talk about pieces that are in danger of being trapped because
>>the opponent control every square that they can goto.
>>
>>There are cases that you need to search many plies forward to see by search that
>>they are really trapped but a good evaluation should detect the danger.
>>
>>Correct me if I am wrong but I guess that you do not evaluate this information
>>in every node that you evaluate otherwise you cannot be faster in nps than the
>>opponents.
>>
>>Did you consider to evaluate this information or do you think that this
>>information is not important?
>>
>>I think that evaluating expensive information in part of the cases is probably
>>the best practical idea.
>>
>>Based on my understanding Rebel is using that idea when it evaluates every node
>>before qsearch by full evaluation and use lazy evaluation after it when the lazy
>>evaluation can miss only factors that were not relevant before the qsearch.
>>
>>Do you use a similiar idea?
>>
>>Uri
>
>Doesn't Junior do a lot of preprocessing?  If I understand your search
>correctly, Junior searches noncaptures to a much lesser depth than captures, so
>maybe you can get away with it.
>
>anthony

Junior was a preprocessor until 1995. By 1997, most preprocessing was gone.
Junior 8 has none.

Amir



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.