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Subject: Re: 15th Game

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 19:47:38 12/28/03

Go up one level in this thread


On December 28, 2003 at 22:06:59, Anthony Cozzie wrote:

>On December 28, 2003 at 19:58:42, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On December 28, 2003 at 16:48:55, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>
>>>On December 27, 2003 at 11:58:58, Slater Wold wrote:
>>>
>>>It's not clear who is +5 here,
>>>
>>>but whatever the side that is +5, let's consider
>>>
>>>  a) hardware dated 1996/1997
>>>
>>>playing hardware dated 2002/2003
>>>
>>>  b) a public book used for junior
>>>
>>>this where everyone knows the junior style is unique and requires certain
>>>positions to get a full point.
>>>
>>>  c) everyone testing at home junior is completely killing it with their
>>>tournament books and newer versions. Even falcon scores 60%. Diep 95% (one
>>>draw). Others reported similar % at home against it. Crafty gets about 50%
>>>against the public version having a 10 times hardware advantage against a
>>>crippled junior as it doesn't get through the tactical barrier.
>>>
>>>So let's first consider that at world champs
>>>  a) crafty gets killed in book
>>>  b) it is equal hardware, despite all BS stories he tells here it
>>>     won't work in 2005 either at those supercomputers of course
>>>  c) junior gets above the tactical barrier
>>>
>>>End of crafty.
>>>
>>>And *that's* why Bob doesn't show up at world champs, whatever nonsense he tells
>>>here. Everyone who has a chance to win there will show up!
>>
>>Then should we not ask "Why do _you_ bother showing up?"  You clearly
>>don't have a chance of winning.  Based on lots of past tournaments.
>>
>>So I suppose I _completely_ fail to understand your point, assuming you
>>actually _have_ a point beside just knocking a program you can't beat...
>
>I have to more or less agree with Vincent here.  The simple fact of the matter
>is that every circumstance was stacked in Crafty's favor, and it barely won.
>
>If
>
>10x speed difference + Opponent runs at 40/5 min + public book = barely winning
>
>then
>
>4x speed difference + Opponent runs at 40/2 hrs + private book = crafty crushed
>
>anthony


Let's try the math again.

It beat rebel 12 handily at 8-1.  It barely beat junior at 10:1.  It beat
shredder 6-4 at 8:1.  Hiarcs is "in progress".  If you slow crafty down by
1/2, it would _not_ get "crushed".  We can easily test that hypothesis however.
A factor of two does not go from "winning" to "getting crushed".

The "circumstances" were not exactly in Crafty's favor either.  I don't use
that wide ICC book for tournaments.  I don't play those opentings for
tournaments.  The commercial programs come with a very good default book, that
has been hand-customized by a professional book writer.  My book is just a
collection of games combined into a big book.  The matches were played with
book learning off, which further hurts a pretty randomly-created book more than
it does a hand-crafted book.

But the point was, and still is, Crafty _would_ have been competitive in the
2003 WCCC event.  There has _never_ been a claim by me that I would win.  I
would _certainly_ have chances to win.  I've won CCT events with commercial
programs present and accounted for.  Vincent had already declared himself the
winner of the WCCC due to his hardware.  I _know_ better than to make such
stupid claims...  I've been around _way_ too long.



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