Author: Anthony Cozzie
Date: 05:51:19 12/29/03
Go up one level in this thread
On December 28, 2003 at 22:47:38, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On December 28, 2003 at 22:06:59, Anthony Cozzie wrote: > >>On December 28, 2003 at 19:58:42, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On December 28, 2003 at 16:48:55, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>> >>>>On December 27, 2003 at 11:58:58, Slater Wold wrote: >>>> >>>>It's not clear who is +5 here, >>>> >>>>but whatever the side that is +5, let's consider >>>> >>>> a) hardware dated 1996/1997 >>>> >>>>playing hardware dated 2002/2003 >>>> >>>> b) a public book used for junior >>>> >>>>this where everyone knows the junior style is unique and requires certain >>>>positions to get a full point. >>>> >>>> c) everyone testing at home junior is completely killing it with their >>>>tournament books and newer versions. Even falcon scores 60%. Diep 95% (one >>>>draw). Others reported similar % at home against it. Crafty gets about 50% >>>>against the public version having a 10 times hardware advantage against a >>>>crippled junior as it doesn't get through the tactical barrier. >>>> >>>>So let's first consider that at world champs >>>> a) crafty gets killed in book >>>> b) it is equal hardware, despite all BS stories he tells here it >>>> won't work in 2005 either at those supercomputers of course >>>> c) junior gets above the tactical barrier >>>> >>>>End of crafty. >>>> >>>>And *that's* why Bob doesn't show up at world champs, whatever nonsense he tells >>>>here. Everyone who has a chance to win there will show up! >>> >>>Then should we not ask "Why do _you_ bother showing up?" You clearly >>>don't have a chance of winning. Based on lots of past tournaments. >>> >>>So I suppose I _completely_ fail to understand your point, assuming you >>>actually _have_ a point beside just knocking a program you can't beat... >> >>I have to more or less agree with Vincent here. The simple fact of the matter >>is that every circumstance was stacked in Crafty's favor, and it barely won. >> >>If >> >>10x speed difference + Opponent runs at 40/5 min + public book = barely winning >> >>then >> >>4x speed difference + Opponent runs at 40/2 hrs + private book = crafty crushed >> >>anthony > > >Let's try the math again. > >It beat rebel 12 handily at 8-1. It barely beat junior at 10:1. It beat >shredder 6-4 at 8:1. Hiarcs is "in progress". If you slow crafty down by >1/2, it would _not_ get "crushed". We can easily test that hypothesis however. >A factor of two does not go from "winning" to "getting crushed". I agree: if Junior played on a 266 celery and crafty on a 1G athlon (instead of a 3G P4) the score would probably be about equal. But if Junior played on a 4xP4 and Crafty played on a 16xOpteron, I think the score would be heavily in Junior's favor. >The "circumstances" were not exactly in Crafty's favor either. I don't use >that wide ICC book for tournaments. I don't play those opentings for >tournaments. The commercial programs come with a very good default book, that >has been hand-customized by a professional book writer. My book is just a >collection of games combined into a big book. The matches were played with >book learning off, which further hurts a pretty randomly-created book more than >it does a hand-crafted book. We both know guys like Noomen & Kure don't put their best novelties & lines into their commercial book. They hoard them for important events. Crafty simply does not have a hand tuned book. Neither does Zappa: we both have to live with it, but it is clearly worth 30-40 elo to have a good human tuned book. >But the point was, and still is, Crafty _would_ have been competitive in the >2003 WCCC event. There has _never_ been a claim by me that I would win. I >would _certainly_ have chances to win. I've won CCT events with commercial >programs present and accounted for. Vincent had already declared himself the >winner of the WCCC due to his hardware. I _know_ better than to make such >stupid claims... I've been around _way_ too long. I do not think Crafty would finish last. But neither do I think it would beat Fritz, Junior, Brutus, or Shredder, even if it had a 4x hardware advantage. anthony
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