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Subject: Re: Endgame Knowledge

Author: Howard Exner

Date: 10:57:44 11/25/98

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On November 24, 1998 at 19:01:17, Bruce Moreland wrote:

>
>On November 24, 1998 at 15:07:28, Howard Exner wrote:
>
>>2B5/k7/8/K7/4B3/8/8/8 w - - id drawend1;

2n5/kP6/8/K7/4B3/8/8/8 w - - id Pos   3 - JOUNI.EPD;

I should mention that this two bishop draw was taken from
Jouni Uski's endgame suite. Here Rebel10 plays the correct promotion to the
Knight in default mode but when I set Rebel's play style to agressive it
promoted instead to a bishop - yikes!
It may not be all that practical to know this but I believe it should be
included so as to avoid what might be an embarrassing moment in a game or
in endgame analysis.

>>8/1Q6/8/8/8/8/p4K2/k7 w - - id drawend2;
>>8/2Q5/8/8/8/6K1/2p5/2k5 b - - id drawend3;
>>5nrb/2q2Pn1/6pk/8/6K1/8/8/8 w - - id drawend4:
>>8/8/8/7p/6kp/4b3/7K/8 w - - id drawend5;
>>8/8/8/8/3b4/p2k4/P7/1K6 b - - id drawend6;
>>8/8/8/3k4/4q3/5R2/6P1/6K1 b - - id drawend7;
>>8/4k3/6K1/8/4N1N1/8/8/8 w - - id drawend8;
>>
>>Do programs know that these 8 positions are drawn?
>>How important is it it to include this specific
>>endgame knowledge? - From both programmer and consumer
>>perspective.
>>
>>I think most programs will know the draw with KNN vs K
>>or the rook pawn with the wrong colored bishop.
>
>That's a good set.  The hardest ones are the Q vs P endings, meaning that the
>knowledge is hardest to codify in those.  I don't think you can just say "return
>0" in those cases because there are some that are won.  However, they are easily
>solved with tables.

In regards to tables is there such a thing as a reduced endgame base with just
the most common scenarios? Or are the efficient to a point where there is
no performance hit during actual play?
>
>The KBP vs KP is also a nice trick.  You can move the ram a file to the right
>and  that's another good one,

I'll have to remember that one, I wasn't aware of that draw.

>which actually cost mine a half-point once in a
>slower game against an IM.  Not anymore.

I believe it is a good thing for chess programs to add endgame knowledge
even when the probability is rare of the position showing up. I think it
makes for a more complete product.



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