Author: Jasmine Baer
Date: 12:53:06 01/02/04
Go up one level in this thread
On January 02, 2004 at 12:16:35, Anthony Cozzie wrote: >On January 02, 2004 at 11:24:19, Steven J. Brann wrote: > >>On January 02, 2004 at 11:05:41, Anthony Cozzie wrote: >> >>>On January 02, 2004 at 09:57:38, Jasmine Baer wrote: >>> >>>>I've seen it written that under the following conditions: >>>> >>>>1. Engine vs. Engine match or tournament >>>>2. Held on a single computer with a single processor >>>> >>>>having ponder=ON(or Permanent Brain in the Fritz GUI) will impact the play of >>>>the engines since the each individual engine would not have full access to the >>>>processor during its own turn. >>>> >>>>First, is this true? >>>> >>>>Second, is this issue, if it actually is an issue, something that is eliminated >>>>by running a two-processor system? >>>> >>>>And, finally, does anyone have any solid insight on how ponder=off/on or >>>>Permanent Brain works on a Pentium 4 with Hyperthreading? >>>> >>>>Thanks. >>> >>>Ponder means that the engine thinks while its opponent moves. Since there is >>>only 1 cpu, and both engines are thinking, they get half the cpu. >>> >>>HT is garbage for computer chess. A pentium 4 is ONE core. HT is designed for >>>applications that spend most of their time in the memory system. >>> >>>anthony >> >>To me, my 3.0G HT machine is NOT garbage for computer chess. When it is >>thinking about a position it takes up 50% of the CPU and is still much much >>faster than my 1.9G P4 machine. When analyzing a position with my 1.9G P4, the >>machine would be rendered useless for using any other application while it was >>thinking about a position. >> >>So, HT enables me to accomplish other things on the machine at the same time ... >>email, reviewing this site, chat with video, Word, Excel ... and >>performance-wise its as if the chess program isn't running at all. I'm >>analyzing a position as I write this. >> >>That means a lot to ME. Certainly not garbage in my opinion. >> >>Steve > >I'm only going to say this once, so pay attention. > >A P4 with hyperthreading is _A SINGLE CPU_ that _TRICKS_ windows into thinking >it is two. If you still think you have two CPUs, try running two chess engines >at once. I did not say "P4 is worthless for computer chess" (although I prefer >my dual opteron :). My point is just that if Intel removed HT from the chip you >would not know the difference. Everywhere I go I run into people that think its >two CPUs. Its unbelievably annoying. > >The reason Intel put hyperthreading in the P4 is to help it with databases. >When a running a database, the processor spends a lot of time waiting for >memory. With HT, it can get useful work to do from the other thread while one >blocks on the memory system. > >anthony Just so people don't freak out and turn this into a flame session, or a nauseating AMD vs. Intel session... I guess the question about these P4 processors with Hyperthreading can be broken into two parts: 1. Does hyperthreading help the computer chess program user get more "stuff" done simultaneously on his/her PC? So far, in my limited experience, I've been happy with the processor. Like a previous poster mentioned, the PC is no longer useless when it is evaluating a position. This is really great for me - I can let ol' Fritz run his little buns off on a position while at the same time scanning a picture for my son's project, download egtb from Dr. Hyatt's ftp site, get the latest virus definitions installed, zip up a large file, and work on a presentation for work. 2. Does hyperthreading increase the performance of a chess engine when playing against another chess engine? In other words, say I have two nearly identical PCs hooked to the Internet, with the only difference being that one PC had the P4 2.8 Ghz w/HT and the other had the P4 2.8 Ghz w/o HT. I log on to playchess.com with both PCs, and started playing a bunch of computer games against all comers. If I were to play enough games to have a large enough sample, would the PC with HT perform better than, the same as, or worse than the PC w/o HT? In other words, which PC would produce higher quality games? What if both PCs played against each other with an identical chess engine?
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