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Subject: Re: "False data"

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 08:10:08 01/06/04

Go up one level in this thread


On January 05, 2004 at 19:48:35, Rolf Tueschen wrote:

>On January 05, 2004 at 19:33:05, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On January 05, 2004 at 19:05:59, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>>
>>>On January 05, 2004 at 18:51:10, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On January 05, 2004 at 18:30:32, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On January 05, 2004 at 18:18:57, Anthony Cozzie wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On January 05, 2004 at 13:52:39, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On January 05, 2004 at 11:07:03, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On January 04, 2004 at 00:43:30, Ed Trice wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Hi Ed,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>It was my intention to stop posting in the amateur forum,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Why don't you take your "non-amateur" stuff back to the forum for
>>>>>>>the "world's foremost authority on everything" (which has only one
>>>>>>>member of course, so you _never_ have to defend anything you post
>>>>>>>there) and leave the rest of us alone?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>your "air of superiority" is sickening, IMHO.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>BTW, exactly how many copies of your program have you sold, to qualify you
>>>>>>>to be "non-amateur"???
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This is quite clearly an amateur forum.  The vast majority of the members here,
>>>>>>including you and me, are not paid to write chess programs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I know you and Vincent don't get along, but you seem to be able to take offense
>>>>>>at the mildest things when he writes them . . .
>>>>>>
>>>>>>anthony
>>>>>
>>>>> Excuse me if I contradict. IMO Bob Hyatt reacted on Vincents vocabulary with
>>>>>the maximum possible friendliness as academic. I fear you underestimate the
>>>>>nonsense V. is writing from time to time. Others would stop all communication
>>>>>with such correspondent. In Vincent's case Bob tried to be an elderly critic
>>>>>full of mild irony. While V. goes into crass verbal de-regulations. But the
>>>>>limit is if you accuse unjustified a scientist of fraud. A scientist without
>>>>>commercial interest in computerchess. Somewhere there must be a limit!
>>>>>
>>>>>You can criticise all you want and a normal scientist will be happy to have a
>>>>>dispute with you. But somehow you must also show some respect for the academic
>>>>>education. Look, the critic of Hyatt and yours truly against the TD board in
>>>>>Graz is academically sound because it's logically based on the rules and
>>>>>reality. Vincent however has no case at all and he still is talking about
>>>>>'fraud'.
>>>>>
>>>>>Rolf
>>>>
>>>>Note that there were other people who criticized that article including me but
>>>>saying that some data is wrong and even saying that we cannot trust one article
>>>>of Hyatt is different than blaming him like Vincent did.
>>>
>>>This is the first argument and the second, considering your own critic above,
>>>please read http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?340359
>>>and then say what you mean Bob did wrong.
>>>
>>>1. The original data are ok
>>>
>>>2. There were interpolations; there might be something inexact
>>>
>>>I think we must differentiate between these two cases. If you simply speak of
>>>"data" this could be confusional. The interpolations might be faulty but NOT the
>>>original data. That is at least what Bob is saying IMO. I remember we had also a
>>>debate how such a thing could happen but Bob explained how this could well
>>>happen during the process of the publication. It was certainly not a fraud or
>>>something next to it. It is strange that Vincent has misunderstood it.
>>>
>>>Rolf
>>
>>We certainly cannot claim that we are sure that it was a fraud but the fact that
>>the interpolations were not mentioned in the publication give a reason to have
>>doubts about trusting the article.
>>
>>Hyatt gave an explanation but the problem is that the explanation was given too
>>late and not at the time of the publication.
>>
>>I usually believe that data is correct but if Bob Hyatt remembers to give more
>>information only after people find mistakes then we can wonder and suspect that
>>some more information is hidden and it is a reason to have doubts about the
>>article.
>>
>>Note that I do not claim that data that is calculated based on interpolation is
>>a mistake, but not mentioning it in time is a mistake.
>>
>
>I think I understand what you are saying but I assume that you misunderstand the
>reality of such publications. The whole interpolating and calculating was NOT
>part of Bob Hyatt's (first) version of the article. That was an add-on later
>during the process of proof-reading (?). At least that is what I remember of the
>debate at the time. Now I ask you, Uri, why something should be mentioned if (as
>a mistake) the add-on was not discovered as partially false? Yes, you might well
>call it a mistake, but do you know for sure that Bob had any time at all to
>think this over? Because normally you rely on the proof-reading experts. I dont
>remember who that was in the ICCAJ. I hope it wasn't J. vd Herik. :)
>
>Rolf

He has been the editor for as long as I can remember, in fact, so Jaap was
involved.  But he was not a reviewer.  He simply collected the comments from
the reviewers and sent them to me (he also always changed "color" to "colour"
but I never hesitated to change it back.  :)  )


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>>Uri



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