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Subject: Re: Wright brother's WERE the first in self powered aircraft.

Author: Keith Evans

Date: 23:15:43 01/08/04

Go up one level in this thread


On January 08, 2004 at 21:51:06, Amir Ban wrote:

>On January 08, 2004 at 13:58:01, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On January 08, 2004 at 12:37:18, Ed Trice wrote:
>>
>>>Hello Dr. Hyatt,
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Your _game_ is somewhat different than normal chess, although I don't believe
>>>>it meets the criteria for "no prior-existing art" in patent law.  I am talking
>>>>about _playing_ your game, not building a chess board and pieces for your game
>>>>and selling that.  Patent law does not go there.
>>>
>>>A ha!
>>>
>>>You think I am trying to control who plays the game?
>>>
>>>No no no, not at all!
>>>
>>>You can play  it all you want!
>>>
>>>1. You can't sell it.
>>>2. You can't give it away.
>>>
>>>Sure you can make your own pieces and set them down on an 80 square board, that
>>>is not what is being claimed as something prohibitive.
>>>
>>>Playing the game is not an infringement.
>>>
>>>Making a program is.
>>
>>There I am absolutely, 100% sure, you are wrong.  You can _not_ patent something
>>from that perspective.  It was already done for the music transposition
>>algorithm.  It was kicked out by the courts.
>>
>>you can patent a "thing".  You can not patent a "subject".  IE you can not
>>patent an "airplane".  You can patent a _specific_ design, with two wings,
>>engine in the front, rudder/elevator in the rear.  Along comes someone with
>>two wings but elevator in the front and they patent that.
>>
>
>You can patent procedures. There are thousands of patents that do that. I have
>several of those to my name.
>
>E.g., recently Microsoft announced it will start licensing the FAT file system.
>This was a surprise because that dates from 1975, was never patented, and if it
>were it would expire by now. It turns out that Microsoft are trying to get
>royalties out of the long filename variation of FAT. Specifically their patent
>claims to invent a file system organization holds both a long filename and a
>short version, as is done in Windows and MS-DOS 6.
>
>Ten years ago Stac nailed Microsoft for $40 million on their patent for
>Lempel-Ziv 77. Sperry have the patent for Lempel-Ziv-Welch, and routinely
>license it.

Now I believe that Hifn (a spin-off of Stac http://www.hifn.com/) owns the LZS
(Lempel-Ziv-Stac) patent and they actually managed to get it into a number of
the Internet RFCs as an optional feature. Anyways it's a huge patent for them -
many multi-millionaires were created because of this one patent. Obscure trivia
is that Stac actually started as a chip company.

>
>You can't get around a patent by making an arbitrary variation. If you do ALL
>the steps in ANY of the claims, you are in infringement.
>
>Amir
>
>
>>Just try to patent "a machine that flies" to see what I mean.  That's why you
>>have to supply all the ancillary stuff, such as drawings, specifications,
>>details about operation, etc.
>>
>>I could never (probably) build a chess set for your game and sell it.  But I
>>can certainly write a program that plays the game, because you have made the
>>rules _public_.  And my program that plays the game is mine to sell or give
>>away.  Just as surely as I can write a program that _designs_ airplanes, and
>>sell it, even though the aircraft designs are already patented.
>>
>>Someone is giving you _bad_ advice when they tell you that you can prevent
>>someone from writing a program to play a game you have patented.
>>
>>>
>>>Now I know what you are going to say: "How is writing a program to play the game
>>>different from any other representation?"
>>>
>>>We sell a Gothic Chess program. We sell boards and pieces.
>>
>>you can sell a chess program.  You can copyright one.  But you can't prevent
>>me from writing one myself.  If you believe so, you are in for a lot of grief
>>later when you spend a fortune and lose when you challenge someone.  My chess
>>program is copyrighted, because I wrote it.  You can't take it and use it as
>>you want without my permission.  But you _can_ write one of your own.  BTW you
>>can _not_ patent a computer program.  The only exception that has been granted
>>was when the program was a hard-wired design where the chip itself (containing
>>the "program) was therefore patentable.
>>
>>>
>>>I think that covers it, in essence.



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