Author: Lawrence S. Tamarkin
Date: 09:20:57 11/27/98
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To more fully answer your post, 1. All of the commercial programs beat the crap out of me at five and ten minute levels that I primarily set them for. (I'm rated 2150 Fide & USCF, my ICC rating varies). This doesn't bother me at all, as programs like Genius3 and Fritz3 also beat the crap out of top rated senior maters at the Marshall chess club 4 years ago on much lessor hardware, at the same time control(s). Mostly, I like to analyse recently completed top games, especially when someone like Shabalov or Rohde sack a piece speculatively and come out the victor. Its fun to see if the program will play the same thing. Often it won't. I think most of the stronger programs take a solid move over a 'crazy' one. I don't have Chess System Tal yet, but will probably get the windows version in January to see. I respect the proggramer's very much, and it gives me great enjoyment that these tools exist that allow me to understand what went on in these games more than I would have otherwise. 2. I (previously), mentioned the Saitek board mostly because I was a little dissapointed with, compared to TASC smart board, which is clearly the coolest Auto board ever manufactured, IMO. Its a shame that there isn't a much bigger market for it, and that the price hasn't (or can't) come down to more affordable levels. I played it almost dially, when I worked at Yasser Seirawan's, 'Seattle Mind Games'. It was fun. Sadly, this store is no more. 3. As far as beating Expert level players & computers are concerned, I am like this, When I play a computer, I can seldom even finnish a game; the lack of a human ego on the other end makes the game very 'flat' for me, and I can't remain concentrated. I recently lost a close game to a 2350 computer on the ICC. It was the best I played against a high rated opponent on the ICC in a long time. As usaul, I was quietly cursing myself (and my opponent), during the game. When I finally 'blew it', and fell into a knight fork, I hit the table (like I usaully do, yelling *!#!$#!). Then when I 'fingered' it, I saw it was a program, not a human, and I felt like I really wasted energy! Yeah, I'm nuts, but the ICC is the perfect place for me, because its a safe place to vent anger at one's self - the opponent can't see you 'freeken out'. I find it a very pleasurable place to try to improve my speed chess, although my girlfriend thinks I'm suffering a great deal. Well I am, but I'm also enjoying the competitive experience a great deal too:) You say that you, 'refuse to get rated because of the large number of neurotic individuals in chess clubs.' Its important to realize that all (generalization), chess-players are neurotic sick bastards just like myself; Yes I know that some of you will say that I'm wrong, that their are geltleman(and ladies), in chess, but for the most part chess is like war; we basically want to just kill each other & give a battle cry. Nothing is more fundamental about the human id. We know we should all be 'perfect' gentelman at the club like Keres, but usaully we don't manage that, even on the ICC! Maybe if we start playing like Keres, we'll be better losers, on those rare occasions that we lose!? - But I doubt it as Keres did not become World Champion. I think you have to be a bit of a 'shithead', to become a strong player. It was Botvinnik who said, 'Chess is for strong people with strong ego's'. So if you really want to improve (as a human player certainly), don't worry about what these people are like. The best (perhaps only), way to really improve is to play regulary against other human players in rated chess events. This may well not be what you are aiming for, or it might not be appealling enough to you with all of it aggraviations. Thats fine too. This is my 'take' on it, after more than 25 years of experience of chess players, including my own week self:) 4. I think these programs are already at the point were they play beatifull moves on a routine basis. I think that most chess profesionals already use these programs as a preperation tool, and that matches between Computer programs and top human player's are basically for show, and have limited scientific value. (except maybe for Deep Blue type machine's against the very best). I hope that matches between humans and computer programs will continue to have a media, and entertainment value for a few more years. I hope that these events don't dissapear (almost), completely like, Grandmaster's giving simutaneas exhibitions have. mrslug - the inkompetent chess software addict! On November 27, 1998 at 04:44:23, Timothy J. Frohlick wrote: >Mr. Oudheusden, > >I assume that you are responding to all the posts on this site that brag about >beating a particular program or playing it to a draw and then claiming that it >is a weak program. This is just human nature. I do agree with you that just >playing on a board without looking at play continuation lines will make winning >less likely. It is fun however to let the program select a move that causes it >to beat itself. It is also informative to play a line and then return to the >beginning and try another line. > >I myself can usually beat expert level chess players but get whipped by >candidate masters and above. I am unrated and refuse to get rated because of >the large number of neurotic individuals in chess clubs. I prefer to play chess >programs that don't get pissed when they lose. Computer chess is fascinating >because it offers one the opportunity to play an opponent that while not >self-aware is an extension of human play and is quite adept at the game. > >As this programming of chess matures we will get to the point where a program >will use optimized sub-programs in specific positions and play truly beautiful >chess. I really like to be beaten soundly by a creative adversary. Eventually, >even the most gifted humans will not be able to beat the monsters that are >coming on the face of the chess world. We or our children will be in awe of the >amazing play of these coming robots. We all want a program that plays beautiful >chess.
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